gooood团队采访世界各地的有趣创意人，欢迎您的推荐和建议。第21期为您奉上的是 张唐景观，更多关于他们，请至：Z + T STUDIO on gooood

gooood team interviews creative from all over the world. Your recommendations and suggestions are welcomed! gooood Interview NO.21 introduces Z + T STUDIO. More: Z + T STUDIO on gooood

出品人：向玲 Producer: Xiang Ling
编辑团队：向玲，陈诺嘉，武晨曦，许江琦，张曼青 Editor: Xiang Ling, Chen Nuojia, Wu Chenxi, Xu Jiangqi, Zhang Manqing

Interview
gooood x Z + T STUDIO 张唐景观

1.

张唐景观的设计理念是什么？在项目尺度跨越巨大的景观行业中，你们如何为自己定位？
What is Z+T Studio’s design philosophy? Since Landscape architecture is such a broad profession, what does Z+T Studio focus?

我们认为景观设计可以通过链接人和自然以提升人们的幸福感。它可以像催化剂一样给人们的生活带来多样性，增强社区活力，促进个体的自我认知。它也是实现社区可持续性和弹性的重要手段。

当代景观行业所关注的问题相对建筑来说要宽泛的多，尺度跨度巨大是其中原因之一。由于大尺度的项目基本上都是政府投资和主导的项目，一般都要求有甲级资质。张唐景观作为一个小型私家事务所不可能拥有甲级资质，所以实际上也不能合法地做这类大型项目。另外，这类项目由于在设计和建设阶段需要符合各种法规程序，设计师对于项目的最终质量控制力比较弱。我们从2009年上半年成立以来，主要做的还是相对较小的非公共项目。我们的兴趣点也主要在于做一些高品质的项目，通过这些项目把中国现在景观的设计和建设标准提升一个更高的层次。事实上，这样最终也会影响到大型公共项目的品质。

We see landscape design as a link between nature and community well-being. It can serve as a catalyst to enrich the diversity, vitality and self-identity for people and their communities. It is also a vessel for our visions of sustainability and resilience.

The issues that the contemporary landscape architecture profession is focusing on are much broader compare to the architecture profession. This is mostly due to the project scale. However, large-scale projects in China are predominantly government funded projects, which require certain qualification that a small private firm can not acquire. Technically Z+T Studio is not qualified for those types of large-scale project. But, ironically, because of the legal procedures both in the design and implementation phases, designers who are working on the projects tend to have little control over the project quality. Since Z+T Studio was established in early 2009, its major focus has been on the private sector and relatively small-scale projects. We are interested in creating high quality projects and pushing the standard of constructed landscape in China to a higher level. This will eventually improve the quality of large-scale public projects.

▼张唐景观部分项目一览，part of Z+T Studio’s projects

2.

两位创始人的分工是怎么样的？现在公司的规模和发展状况如何？
How do two of you divide your work in the studio？

作为合伙人，我们希望将大多数时间都花在项目上，由办公室其他几个资深设计师来分担市场，财务，招聘和人员管理等重要的工作。每当接触到新项目，我们两个人会决定谁来负责谁来辅助。如果两个人都不是太感兴趣，我们就不会接这个项目。为了确保至少我们两人之一能在每个项目上花足够多的时间，我们把办公室的规模控制在一定范围内，同时每年也基本上只接大概十个项目。目前张唐景观有28个员工。

As the only two design principals, we tend to spend most of our time on projects and have other senior designers in the office taking care of marketing, finance, hiring and office management. Every time a new project comes in, we decide which one of us will be the principal in charge or the consultant. If neither of us is inspired in doing it, we will turn down the project. To make sure either of us can have enough time on every project, we keep the studio an intimate size and only accept about ten projects every year. Currently we have 28 on staff.

▼张唐景观工作室场景，working scene in Z+T Studio

▼张东和唐子颖修改设计图纸，Zhang Dong and Tang Ziying revising the design drawings

▼张东研究模型，指导员工，Zhang Dong, studying the model and instructing colleagues

3.

接到一个项目后，张唐如何开始设计，如何挖掘和把握一个场地的内涵？
How do you start a project and how do you find the spirit of the site?

张唐的设计可能和别的公司不太一样，但设计流程和别的设计公司并没什么区别。每个设计公司都会把设计分为概念，方案，扩初，施工图几个阶段。不过为了提高整体效率，国内大多数景观设计公司都会分为前期方案组和后期施工图组。张唐景观采用了不同的模式。我们同一个项目组会负责从初期概念到施工图及最终现场的所有工作。根据我们的经验，这个看似很小的改变对于提高项目的品质非常有意义。国内所有的变化都很快，你很难对未发生的事情有准确的预判。对于一个项目来说，在相对比较长的一段时间内唯一可以确定的就是不可预测性。设计在每个阶段都可能需要根据新的信息进行必要的调整，有时候甚至需要重新评估重新设计。同一个团队整体负责的好处就是这样的每次调整时信息不会缺失。

理解和把握场地不是一次性的动作，是伴随着项目的整个阶段的持续性行为。每一个项目一开始我们都会做各种研究搜集各种信息，包括地形，植被，水文以及未来人们将会怎么使用等等。在此基础上我们会提出设计概念。随着项目的推进，我们会越来越熟悉和了解场地和需求。初期概念会在以后的各个阶段持续被修正和深化。有时候意外的发现和调整会让项目变得更有意思。我们尽量在面对这些不确定性时保持乐观。

Even though our design might be different with the work of other landscape architecture office, our design process is the same. We all start with conceptual design, move to schematic design, then design development and finalize with construction drawings. This is a common practice in the modern landscape architecture profession. However, in most LA firms in China, to improve efficiency designers are divided into two groups, one working on conceptual and schematic design while another group is working on design development and construction drawings. Z+T Studio keeps the same design team from the very beginning all the way to the end of the project. Based on our experience, this office management method has significant impact on improving project quality. In China everything moves and changes so quickly that it is hard to know what will happen next. The only thing one can predict is the unpredictability. We have to keep recalibrating the design in every phase according to any new information. Having one team working on these revisions definitely has its benefit.

To start, we will do extensive research about the site, collecting information on the topography, vegetation, hydrology, wildlife, as well as how people are going to use the site in the future. Ideas will come after the research and will continue to be developed throughout the entire design process. The more familiar we get with the site the more refined the ideas will become. There is always surprise that makes the project really unique. We try to be optimistic and positive when facing the uncertainty.

▼工作流程：第一轮概念 – 第二轮概念 – 方案深化 – 施工图 – 施工 – 建成，Design process: original concept – concept design – schematic design – construction drawing – construction – complete

4.

工作室的工作主要包含三部分：景观设计，艺术工坊和生态实验室，它们分别是怎样运转的？互相之间有怎样的联系？
You have a landscape design studio, an art workshop and a biophilic lab, how these three team work together?

张唐景观开始的时候只有景观设计团队。大概在做了五年的时候，我们觉得非常需要一个艺术工作室来支撑我们的设计团队。有时候我们会有一些新的概念。但是在我们汇报给甲方之前，这些概念最好是能在什么地方先试验一下；有时候我们有个很好的想法，甲方却找不到能够在有限的资金和工期内把这个想法具体做出来的资源。艺术工作室帮助我们尝试了许多传统景观公司不会做的东西。生态实验室也是类似的一个支持团队，提供相对更精确的数据和工程技术研究，帮助设计团队更好地理解场地生态和水文系统。设计团队，艺术工作室和生态实验室之间的合作往往是在一个项目的不同阶段，根据具体的需要。

▼艺术工坊部分项目，some projects of the Art Workshop
云朵乐园水滴剧场（左1）；山水间蚂蚁雕塑（左2）；儿童农场鱼骨（左3）；清泉石上流（左4）
云朵乐园镜面音乐墙（右1）；云朵乐园镜面桥（右2）；云朵乐园溪流（右3）；嘉都中央公园虫洞雕塑（右4）
The Water Droplet Pavillion in Cloud Paradise Park (left 1); Ant sculpture in Shan Shui Jian (left2); Fish Bones in Children’s Farm (left 3); water installation (left 4)
The Glacier Corridor in Cloud Paradise Park (right 1); The Glacier Bridge in Cloud Paradise Park (right 2); Stream in Cloud Paradise Park (right 3); Wormhole Sculpture in Jiadu Central Park (right 4)

Z+T Studio started just two of us as landscape designers. After practicing for 5 years, we discovered that we really needed an art workshop to support the design team. Sometimes we had a crazy idea and the idea needed be tested before we felt comfortable to present it to the client; sometimes we had a great idea and the client had difficulty finding the right people to build it within the budget and schedule. The art workshop really helped us push the boundaries and make the idea happen. Biophilic Lab also supports our design team. With this backing our design team can better understand the ecological and hydrological systems of a site. The collaboration between the design team, art workshop and biophilic lab can happen at any stage of a project.

▼生态实验室部分项目，some projects of Biophilic Lab
海南保亭项目生态措施（左1，右1）；嘉都中央公园生态措施（左2，右2）；山水间生态措施（左3）；合肥淝河智慧公园生态措施（右3）
ecological solution for Hainan Baoting (left 1, right 1); ecological solution for Jiadu Central Park (left 2, right 2); ecological solution for Shan Shui Jian (left 3); ecological solution for Hefei Feihe Intelligence Park (right 3)

5.

如何处理金属，混凝土等现代材料与自然之间的关系？
How do you deal with the relationship between nature and contemporary materials, such as metal and concrete?

材料的选择对设计师来说可能是最纠结和最重要的问题之一。张唐景观对于选择材料会花很多时间和精力。选择材料时会有许多考虑，比如说色调，质感，文脉，感受，个人喜好，资金预算，可行性，耐久性等等。很难有完美的选择，总是在各种因素之中的一个平衡。作为景观设计师，我们充分地意识到不同材料所传达的精神性。现代的金属和混泥土材料和自然材料比如石材，粘土，木材非常不一样。但这个并不意味着自然材料会和自然的关系更好一些。只是不一样。每一种材料在特定的情况下都可能会是最好选择。

▼苏州樾园公园 – 透水混凝土园路和柚木坐凳，搭配使用现代材料和自然材料（点击这里查看更多），Yueyuan Courtyard – permeable concrete road and wooden bench, combination of modern and natural materials (click HERE to view more)

Material selection is always one of the most struggling and critical issues for designers. In Z+T Studio, we pay a lot attention to how to choose the right material for the project. There are many criteria for choosing a material such as: color, texture, context, perception, personal taste, budget, feasibility, availability, durability and toughness. There is no perfect choice. It is always a balance between all these considerations.

As landscape architects, we are fully aware of the essence of each material. Contemporary man-made materials such as metal, concrete and glass are very different from natural materials such as stone, clay, and wood. However, this does not mean natural materials will have a better relationship with nature. It is just different. They all can be the best choice in certain circumstances.

▼万科建研中心 – 预制混凝土与植被融合（点击这里查看更多），Vanke Research Center – prefabricated concrete merged with the vegetation (click HERE to view more)

▼山水间 – 锈蚀钢板和越秀木，Shan Shui Jian – Corten steel and wooden materials

6.

什么是你们最喜欢的材料（水，植物其它等等）？你们认为材料对景观设计意味着什么？
What are your favorite materials? What do you think materials mean to landscape design?

每一种材料都具有独特性。景观设计在城市环境下联系人和自然。在城市里我们并不是试图去重建一片自然，而是将自然的一些体验带给人们。可能是阳光，雾，雨，溪流，瀑布，跌水，湖泊池塘，滨水，沙滩，海洋，悬崖，森林，草地，花海，等等，这些自然的特性可以在城市里重现。在设计这些景观体验时，景观设计师需要找到合适的媒介。这些媒介最终需要通过一系列的材料来体现。

Each material has unique characteristic. As landscape architects, we connect people and nature in an urban setting. Instead of rebuilding “nature”, which is nearly impossible, we bring an experience of nature into the city. Sunlight, fog, rain, creeks, waterfalls, cascades, ponds, riverfront, beaches, oceans, cliffs, woods, grasslands, wildflowers and meadows; all of these natural attributes can be experienced in the city. When designing those experiences, landscape architects need use some kind of medium which will eventually be broken down into a set of material selection.

▼安吉鲸奇谷 – 毛石墙，给人以自然的体验，Anji Marvel Valley – rubble wall creating a natural feeling

我们倾向于避免在项目开始之前有一些先入为主的材料喜好。所有的材料选择应该是基于项目的。这一点对我们来说尤其重要。由于我们在全国不同的地方做项目，我们需要理解地方景观并了解当地的景观材料。有一些材料选择可以给项目带来一种异域的和奇特的体验，换一种材料可能会让人觉得景观和周边环境更融合。两种情况都具有可能性，关键在于设计师想要什么。

Z+T Studio tends to not have a predetermined material preference before designing a project. All material selections should base on the project. This is especially important. Since we have projects in different regions of China, we need look at vernacular landscape to see what is available. Some material selections can have an exotic or extraordinary effect on the project, while some other selections might make people feel the landscape was pre-existing and well fitted into the surroundings. Both are possible choices. It really depends on what you want to bring to the project.

▼樾园公园 – 板岩墙和环境相融合（点击这里查看更多），Yuyuan Courtyard – slate wall being harmony with the environment (click HERE to view more)

当然，我们的确会出于审美因素更喜欢某些材料一些。通常会倾向于用更加粗犷自然的材料因为这类材料随着时间会表现的越来越好。但是我们也会喜欢一些非常人工的材料，比如说亚克力和玻璃。这种材料的细腻的质感和半透明性可以很好地抓住自然光线的变化，另外它可以在人工和自然之间产生一种模糊状态，我们觉得非常的有趣。

Having said that, we do favor some materials over others because of aesthetic preference. We generally prefer earthy materials over artificial materials because they are more durable and perform better as they aged. But we also like some artificial materials such as acrylic glass. The smoothness and translucency can capture the changing of light. It also provides ambiguity between spaces, between man-made and nature. We think it is intriguing.

▼昆山白鹭名邸 – 亚克力屏风模糊人工和自然，Kunshan Egret Villa – Acrylic screens blur the boundary of artificial work and nature

▼玖著里 – 半透明U型玻璃屏风，Jiu Zhu Li – translucent screen made of U-tube glass

7.

能否介绍一下“参与性生态”的理念以及你们在这方面的景观实践成果和经验？
Please explain your concept of “participatory Ecosystem ”and any example?

如果你读一幅传统的山水画，你可以看到人和自然是共生的。在一个巨大的自然山水中散布着小小的人工构筑：一座小桥，亭子，塔或者一个茅草棚。这些构筑物暗示着人参与到自然之中；你再进到一个苏州的古典园林园林，会看到由建筑围合的庭院中人工的假山自然和日常生活相融合。这种人与自然的关系和西方的有些不一样。对我们来说，人是自然的一部分，并且乐于在日常生活中和自然互动。当我们设计景观时，我们希望能强调这种关系。

If you look at a Chinese classical landscape painting, you will see people integrated in the landscape. Small man-made structures such as a small bridge, a pagoda, a pavilion and a shelter are interspersed in the grand landscape and indicate how people engage with nature. And if you walk into a classical garden in Suzhou city, you will find artificial, rocky, miniature mountains contained in courtyards and seamlessly integrated into everyday life. This human-nature relationship is very different from a western one. People are part of nature and enjoy interacting with nature in daily life. When we design a landscape, we want to celebrate this relationship.

▼山水间 – 阿基米德取水器，初次采用“参与性生态”概念，Shan Shui Jian – Archimedes’ screw, first practice of “participatory ecosystem”

“参与性生态”的概念产生于长沙山水间公园设计期间。这个长沙远郊的小社区公园现场主要是一片长满次生林的山坡和谷底一个废弃的鱼塘。公园周边将会被开发成一大片高密度的住宅区。这个公园将会是附近居民唯一的一个开放空间。我们希望能改善公园内部的生态环境，同时也需要考虑到众多居民的日常活动需求。生态功能和人的活动必须被同时考虑并有机整合。需要找到一种平衡。我们设计了一个比较复杂的生态系统来处理雨水，同时人也鼓励和这个系统有一定互动性。我们把这个系统称之为“参与性生态”主要是为了区别于常规的和人没有关系的生态设计方法。当然，我们这种人与景观互动的参与性设计在别的项目上也有体现，比如北京五道口优盛广场的转盘鼓励人和景观的互动；万科时代广场人和水景灯光的互动。

The idea of a participatory ecosystem was brought out when we designed Hillside Eco-park, a small community park in the suburbs of Changsha City. The site was an overgrown, hilly area with a degraded fish pond in the low point. After the completion of the park, a large residential community would be developed in the surrounding areas and this park would be the only public open space available for the future community. We wanted to restore the ecosystem for the land itself but we also needed to take care the daily needs of the people. The ecological sustainability of nature needs be considered together with human activity. There has to be a balance. A sophisticated ecosystem was designed to address the hydrological issues and people were encouraged to interact with this system. We called it a “participatory ecosystem” to distinguish it from conventional approaches.

▼公园里 – 波浪水台（点击这里查看更多），The Park – waving cascade (click HERE to view more)

▼万科时代广场 – 人与水景互动，Vanke Times – interaction between people and the waterscape

▼云朵乐园 – 与水景亲密接触（点击这里查看更多），Cloud Paradise Park – intimate contact with the waterscape (click HERE to view more)

8.

如今的景观项目中有很多供儿童娱乐的设施，你们的云朵乐园，儿童农庄等项目中都有所体现。你认为创造供儿童娱乐的景观设施最需要关注的是什么？如何在美学，生态和儿童的玩耍需求中取得平衡？
You have designed many playgrounds in your projects, what do you think are the most important facts of designing a playground?

对弱势群体包括儿童和老人的关怀，在中国的景观行业里还是比较落后的，特别是快速城市化发展中的户外活动中，这样的关怀比较缺失。过去几年里张唐景观做的儿童活动场所或者公园，都具有各个项目特殊的开发背景、项目诉求，实施条件和运营机制。这些因素会导致不同的设计概念，不同材料应用的可能性，甚至制作过程。

The soclicitude for the vulnerable group including children and elderly are often missing in landscape design in China. There is a deficit in outdoor activities for these two groups during the rapid development and the urbanization process. The outdoor playgrounds and parks we have designed in past years responded to specific development context. The site conditions, project objectives, implementation techniques and maintenance requirements of each project affect the design procedure resulting in the creation of different concepts, materials diversity or even fabrication sequence.

▼云朵乐园 – 鹿角爬网（点击这里查看更多），Cloud Paradise Park – horn climbing net (click HERE to view more)

▼云朵乐园 – 互动自行车（点击这里查看更多），Cloud Paradise Park – interactive bycicle (click HERE to view more)

▼儿童农庄 – 灌溉系统（点击这里查看更多），Children’s Farm – irrigation system (click HERE to view more)

▼儿童农庄 – 滑梯（点击这里查看更多），Children’s Farm – slider (click HERE to view more)

除了功能主义和消费主义，设计还应该是一个多方面的平衡。如何平衡是要根据具体条件由设计师做判断。诗情画意的美学功能总是可以和健康的环境或者好玩的东西结合起来，它们之间没有矛盾。它们三者之间甚至会相互启发影响。而美学，虽然不是总被优先考虑，但是会根植在设计师的脑子里影响最终结果。

Any design work is a process of balance between multiple aspects besides satisfying functionalism and consumerism. Maintaining the equilibrium requires wisdom of making decisions depending on the circumstance. Lyrical and aesthetic content should always be combined with healthy environmental system and a place for energetic play. One ideal should not compromise or contradict another, instead, the three can be inspiring to each other. Aesthetic consideration is not the top priority; however, it is always the innermost thoughts of a designer and it will influence the final decision through his/her instinct.

▼宇宙探索乐园，儿童设施让景观更加美丽丰富，universe exploration park, children facilities enrich the landscape

9.

你们认为景观在如今的城市中扮演着怎样的角色？又是如何提升社会福祉的？
Which kind of role landscape architecture profession should play in the city? How do they improve the society well-being?

随着全球气候变化和人为环境破坏，景观行业越来越被认知和了解。它不再单单是传统意义上的种树或者设计铺装，而是逐渐跨界，与生态、艺术、工程、社会经济等学科交织。因为总是以人和环境为核心，景观专业本身就具备人文关怀。又因为总是站在多学科综合的基础上考虑问题，景观专业会给社会和环境发展带来公平性，以及根本性的利益。无论是学术还是实践方面，它在未来的发展中都会越来越重要。

It is more recognized and understood now, during the time of either climate change and profound environmental issues. It may not stay as simple as planting trees or designing pavement as the only choices but become more diverse such as melding boundaries with ecology, art, engineering, social economy etc. People and the environment are key considerations of landscape architecture; thus, the profession has a nature of focusing on humanistic concern. A synthesis of different disciplines brings social equilibrium and fundamental benefit to both human beings and their environment. It will become more and more important for both academics or practicality.

▼嘉都中央公园，社区里私密的游乐设施，Jiadu Central Park, private playground in the community

▼山水间，社区里的游乐设施拉近人与人之间的关系，Shan Shui Jian, playing facilities enhance communication between people

在一个城市中，可以说建筑处理的大多是私属空间，而景观处理的大多是公共空间。城市公共空间的品质某种意义上决定城市公共生活的品质。打个比方，一个新建的社区，刚建成的时候各个居民搬进自己的新家，但是各个私家空间加在一起不等于一个社区。公共景观空间是将大家连接在一起的一个纽带，鼓励大家在这里相互认识交流互动，形成很好的社区氛围和社区文化。一个小社区是这样，一个城市也是这样。

In a city, landscape architecture mostly deals with public space while architecture dealing with private ones. The quality of the public open spaces in a certain way influences the quality of public life of a city. For example, in a new residential neighborhood, public open spaces will help bring individual property owners together to form a community. The open spaces including parks, street, plaza and playground will encourage people to meet and get to know each other and will eventually link the people together for a better community, society and city.

▼万科时代广场，开放的城市景观，Vanke Times, city landscape open to the public

▼云朵乐园，城市中的景观可以将更多人联系在一起（点击这里查看更多），Cloud Paradise Park, landscape in the city create connection between people (click HERE to view more)

10.

如何看待人类生产活动和生态可持续之间的关系？二者之间如何取得平衡？
What do you think the relationship between human economic development and ecological sustainability? How do we achieve a balance?

农耕时代是人类发展史上对自然生态系统破坏最为严重的时期，因为单一的农作物品种破坏了生态物种的多样性。相比农业时期农药的使用，工业社会可能制造了更多或更少的水体和土壤污染，但它的破坏力度可能要在几百年后再评说。

人类自认为是地球上最聪明的物种，所以总想制定游戏规则。无节制的利用自然又想让它健康本身就是矛盾的。自然总是有自己的规律。我们不要总想控制它, 其实彻底了解它都很难。欣赏它，理解它，并且与它合作。我们终归都是其中的一份子。

Agriculture has been deemed the most destructive movement in history regarding the ecosystem. The monotony of crops destroys the variety of species in the environment. Industrial societies may create more or less pollution than farming, but the damage will be felt for hundreds of years to come.

Society believes human beings are the most intelligent species and has the right to dominate others. The recklessness of extravagance and nourishment is a contradiction and never works at the same time. Nature has its own principles for running the world and mankind never thinks to model it. Observe it, appreciate it, and coordinate with it; we all part of the system.

11.

请给年轻景观学子一些建议。
Please give some suggestion to the young generation of landscape architects

我们觉得年轻一代景观学子会有更好的想法也会做的更好。做自己相信的事情, 要有耐心。

We believe that the next generation will have better ideas and will do better. Just do what you believe and be patient.

12.

未来的计划？
What is your future plan?

没有什么特别的计划。我们会继续做现在做的事情，拥抱不确定性，随时准备接受挑战。我们目前的概念想法和设计原则是基于过去的经验的。事实上，我们所做的事情在景观行业里只是很小的一部分，有很大的局限性。随着未来社会，文化，环境，经济甚至人口变化，这个行业也会变化。作为景观设计师，我们将一直会面临新的挑战。

Nothing special. We will keep doing what we are doing right now, embracing the uncertainty and being prepared for the challenges. Our current ideas, thoughts and design principles are based on our previous experiences, which are quite limited. What we have experienced is only a fraction of the landscape architecture professional practice. With the social, cultural, environmental, economic and demographic development in the future, this profession will change, and, as landscape architects, we will be expecting new challenges all the time.

▼张东先生和唐子颖女士合影，photo of Zhang Dong and Tang Ziying

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