gooood团队采访世界各地的有趣创意人，欢迎您的推荐和建议。第29期为您奉上的是 BIG（Bjarke Ingels Group）事务所创始人兼创意总监Bjarke Ingels的访谈，更多关于他，请至：BIG on gooood

gooood team interviews creative from all over the world. Your recommendations and suggestions are welcomed! gooood Interview NO.29 introduces Bjarke Ingels, Founder and Creative Director of Bjarke Ingels Group. More: BIG on gooood

出品人：向玲 | Producer: Xiang Ling
编辑团队：武晨曦，陈诺嘉，杨子遥，石安 | Editor: Wu Chenxi, Chen Nuojia, Yang Ziyao, Shi An

Interview
gooood x Bjarke Ingels

▼Bjarke Ingels © Jonas Bie

除标注外，本文所有照片由BIG提供
All photos courtesy of Bjarke Ingels Group

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BIG的工作方式
BIG’s Way of Work

“每当我们为某件事物赋予形式，我们都是在为未来送上一份礼物”
Every time you give form, you also have the chance to give a gift to the future

1.
BIG团队的工作模式和工作状态是怎样的？如何应对全球范围从单体建筑到城市规划的多元尺度项目挑战？
What is the working mode of BIG’s team? How do you balance your work on projects varying in scales from single buildings to urban planning?

通常，在一个项目开始的时候，我们会尽可能多地去了解它所在的城市、文化、环境和现状，然后再基于这些信息来制定我们的设计策略。就拿疫情期间来说，我们在这段时间一直在为中国的一些项目做研究调查，尤其是在深圳的项目。很多项目是同时进行的，比如在2010年的时候，我们设计了上海世博会丹麦馆，而在那期间我们赢得了深圳能源大厦的设计竞赛。过去的六个月时间，我们忙于重庆的Terminus总部项目，同时也花费了大量时间来完成深圳新歌剧院的设计。我想这些例子可以比较好地解释我们通常的工作模式和状态。

In the beginning, we try to educate ourselves as much as possible about the program that we are designing, the city that we’re designing, the culture, the context, and the conditions. And then by looking through all of that information, we identify specific observations that can help inform our design decisions. I think a good example could be that during the quarantine, we’ve been looking at some projects in China, specifically in Shenzhen. You may remember that in 2010 we did the Danish Pavilion in Shanghai for the world Expo. And at the same time, we won a competition to design the main Energy Headquarters in Shenzhen which was completed two years ago. We’re having quite a bit of work with designing a technology headquarters in Chongqing for Terminus. And then we’ve been spending the last almost six months designing a proposal for the new Opera in Shenzhen. I think it’s a good example of how we typically work.

▼BIG纽约办公室，BIG NYC office

我们预计会在下个月出一本书，名字叫“Formgiving”（出自丹麦语的formgivning），我们希望通过这本书来描述建筑本身的一些最基本的东西。“Formgivning”在丹麦语中就是设计的意思，它的字面含义是“为还未被赋予形式的东西赋予形式”，本质上，也就是给未来赋予形式；更具体一点，就是给你所希望生活的未来赋予形式。我认为这是一种非常不可思议的力量，而作为人类和建筑师，我们真实地拥有这种影响世界和未来的能力。

之所以有称为建筑师的人存在，正是因为我们的世界正在发生变化，而它如今的样子却并不与它变化的方式相符，因此我们必须找到一种方法来适应这种变化。而在寻找的过程中，我们不仅要解决各种各样的问题，还要问问自己：我们如何能让现状变得更好？如何能让明天比今天变得更加有趣和激动人心？每当我们为某件事物赋予形式，我们都是在为未来送上一份礼物。从某种程度上说，你可以为未来赋予它从未要求过的东西。

We are coming out for a book in a month called Formgiving where we tried to describe the fundamental aspects of architectures as we see it, and the title of the book is the Danish word for design, “formgivning”, which literately means to give form to that which has not yet been given form, which is essentially to give form to the future. More specifically, it is to give form to the world that you would like to find yourself living in the future. I think it is an incredible power that we have as human beings and as architects. We actually have the power to influence our world and our future.

There’s always a reason why someone is called an architect. It is because the world is changing, and that change means that the way the world is today does not fit the way that the world is becoming, so we have to somehow accommodate that change. And in doing so we have a chance to not just answer all the questions and solve all the problems, but we also have to ask ourselves, what could we make happen that would be better than today? What could we make happen that would be more exciting and more inspiring than we have today? Every time you give form, you also have the chance to give a gift to the future. In a way, you can give the future something it didn’t ask for.

▼BIG出品的图书，其中包括《Formgiving》。2019年，BIG于在哥本哈根举办了同名展览“Formgiving”，讲述了从宇宙大爆炸到奇点的建筑未来历史。Books by BIG, including Formgiving. In 2019, BIG held the exhibition“Formgiving – An Architectural Future History from Big Bang to Singularity” at DAC
（点击这里查看展览信息 Click here to know more about the exhibition）

当我们坐在桌前画平面图、立面图，试图解决各种问题的时候，我们实际上就真正地拥有了为后代赠予礼物的机会。一个很好的例子是我们在哥本哈根设计的“世界上最清洁的垃圾发电厂”。这座发电站的屋顶是一个滑雪场，外墙则是世界上最高的攀岩墙。一座技术设施成为了城市景观的延伸，对于哥本哈根的年轻一代而言，比如我一岁的儿子，他们不会觉得一座可以滑雪、可以攀岩的发电厂有什么不同寻常，因为这就是他们平常所认识到的生活。当然，他们对于自己的未来肯定也会产生更加疯狂的想法。

回到设计本身，例如你要在深圳设计一座歌剧院，就必须在心中描绘出一个更大的图景，你需要知道深圳在过去四十年中所经历的变化和转型。你不仅需要了解每一个具体的功能和方案，还要明白它将在整座城市中扮演什么样的角色。你当然可以做出很多漂亮的设计，但你更加需要知道你所做的建筑将为它的城市和城市中的人们带来什么。在描绘出这种大的“图景”之后，才能产生更加有意思的想法。

This idea of giving gifts is a very good reminder that when we are sitting and trying to solve all the problems, design the plans, compose the facades, we actually have real possibility to give future generations a real gift. An example of a gift is like last year we opened the cleanest waste-to-energy power plant in the world in Copenhagen. The gift we gave Copenhagen was that now Copenhagen has a ski slope on the roof of the apartment, and the facade is the tallest climbing wall in the world. So suddenly a clean technology has become this kind of artificial extension of the landscape of Copenhagen. And you can say the young generations, like my son, is a year old. He will never know that there was a time when you couldn’t ski on a power plant and when you couldn’t climb the facade. So his whole generation is going to take that for granted. That could be their normal. Of course they’re going to have even crazier ideas about their future.

It is that if you have to design, for instance, an opera house in a city like Shenzhen, not only is there a specific and complex programme, but you also have the bigger picture, which is looking at the underlying transformation that Shenzhen has been going through over the last four decades. Once you start getting familiar with not just the specific programme, but also what role is this programme going to play in the overall transformation of the city, then you start having a better idea about what should this project be about. Of course you can make many beautiful designs, but what you really have to find out is what role this building is going to be playing in the lives of the citizens and the transformation of the city. And once you have the big picture, you can come up with a big idea.

▼哥本哈根COPENHILL垃圾发电厂，融合了滑雪场、徒步旅行路线和攀岩墙的功能
CopenHill waste-to-energy plant, topped with a ski slope, hiking trail and climbing wall
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

2.
您本人会具体参与到项目的哪个阶段，以及如何把控每个项目的进展？
Will you personally engage in each stage of a project? How do you control the progress of each project?

关于BIG的各项事务，我得说很幸运，我本人并不是BIG的CEO，也不负责公司的管理，我的职位应该说是创意总监或者首席创见人，我要做的更多是和团队沟通和接触。通常，一个项目从构思到落成需要5到10年的时间，而在最初的一年里发生的事情是最多的。在之后的3-8年时间里，需要确定项目的分区、获得建造许可、制定所有的技术解决方案，同时还要保证在预算范围内达到尽可能高的质量。在这段时间里，我本人的参与相对比较偶然，往往是在发生一些特殊状况的时候。而到了后期，项目差不多快要建成的时候，很有可能会出现一些和你预期不符的状况，并且需要作出重大的决定，这时候我会再次密切地投入到项目当中。因此总的来说，我个人会参与到项目的所有阶段，但第一年和最后一年是参与得最多的阶段。

I have been very fortunate in the sense that I’m not the CEO of BIG. I am free to be the creative director or the chief visionary. So I don’t have to run the company. All I have to do is engage with the design teams. I would say a project typically takes between five and ten years to realize. Of course, in the beginning, in the first year, a lot of things are happening. You choose the ingredients and you come up with the big ideas to constitute the project. And then it goes through a period of three to eight years, where it has to go through the zoning. It has to get all the permits. You have to come up with all the technical solutions. You have to keep massaging the budget to make sure that you have as much of the qualities that you’re looking for within the available economy. And in that period, my engagement becomes a little bit more incidental, that sometimes something happens that really requires a lot of my attention. And sometimes things are going well, but slowly. Then, towards the end, when you’ve been building for a year or two and you end up with some of the finished or almost finished things, and some things go maybe a little bit wrong or different from what you had expected, I get very involved again because there is suddenly a very high level decision that needs to be taken again. In that sense, I would say I’m involved at all the stages, but I’m especially involved in the first and last year of the project.

▼BIG主要项目一览，featured projects by BIG
（点此查看网站上BIG的全部项目，Click here to see all BIG’s projects on gooood）

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中国项目
Practice in China

“今年45岁的我，可以说是深圳的“同龄人”，而这样一座年轻的城市，能够由一群与它同代的建筑师来为之赋予身份特征，这本身就是一件足够有诗意的事。”

“Now I’m 45 years old. It seems to make almost poetic sense that the architectural character and identity of such a young city could be imagined and designed and built by a generation of architects of the same generation as the city itself.”

1.
深圳能源大厦是BIG在中国落成的第一个项目，这个项目背后有哪些难忘的故事，遇到了哪些挑战？

The headquarters for Shenzhen Energy Company is BIG’s first built project in China mainland. Could you please share us some stories behind this project, such us the challenges you met or anything you feel impressive?

深圳能源大厦可以说是最早的几个能够被称为“美学的可持续”或者“可持续美学”的案例之一。这个项目的总体规划一开始就是非常具体的，即在同一个基座上方分别打造220米高和110米高的塔楼，为客户提供10万平方米的工作空间。在整体层面上我们无法对塔楼的形式产生大的影响，但是很明确的一点是，建筑位于温暖的亚热带气候中，因此我们将重点放在了外墙的设计上。同时，考虑到客户是一家能源公司，我们认为如果可以通过外墙来减少建筑的能源消耗，设计肯定会变得更加有趣。

The Shenzhen Energy Headquarters was obviously one of the first examples of what you could call aesthetic sustainability or sustainable aesthetics. The masterplan was quite given. It was going to be a hundred thousand square meters of work space primarily for the energy company, and the masterplan dictated a 220 and a 110-meter-tall tower. So we couldn’t really influence the form of the towers in the big picture, at least the typology was going be two towers connected at the base. But it was quite clear that we were working in a subtropical climate with warm temperatures and a lot of sun. So we came up with this idea of focusing our energy on the envelope. And also because it is an energy company, we thought it could be interesting to design the building so that it would reduce the energy consumption.

▼2019年落成的深圳能源大厦，可持续的外墙系统在无需任何移动构件或复杂的技术即有效降低了建筑物的整体能耗（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）
Shenzhen Energy Mansion, completed in 2019. The sustainable facade system reduces the overall energy consumption of the building without any moving parts or complicated technology

我们最后把立面做成了百褶裙般的曲折样式。褶皱的每个表面有着不同的透明度，其中不透明的一面始终朝向阳光最多的一侧，而透明的一面则朝向另一侧，这使得建筑即使完全被窗户覆盖，也能够将阳光直射和眩光降至最低——这一简单的想法能够为大楼降低30%的制冷能耗。这样一来，我们可以在主入口和行政会议室等空间设置更大面积的开窗。建筑从外面看上去像是某种介于三宅一生的褶皱布料与Lucio Fontana“划破”艺术之间的混合体，你可以透过这道缝隙望见内部，也可以走入其中。

这座建筑所投射出来的形象或许是一尊优雅的雕塑，而实际上它也是一个纯粹的优化能源效率的策略所造就的结果。在这个层面上，“为建筑赋予美感”的做法与“让建筑变得可持续”的做法最终变成了同一件事。让我们感到高兴的是，每当面临可能改变计划的问题，我们的客户依然坚定地支持着我们最初在竞赛中提出的设计愿景。

▼设计示意，diagram

We came up with this idea of a pleated dress like the facade is zigzagging, almost like an Issey Miyake fabric, and like each side of the zigzag is either opaque or transparent. The opaque side is always facing the direction that gets the most sunlight, and the transparent side is facing the other way. It means that even if the facade is entirely covered in windows, it’s still receiving as little direct thermal exposure and glare as possible. This very simple idea reduces the energy consumption for cooling with 30%. And within that logic, we can create larger openings for main entrances or executive meeting rooms etc. The result is some kind of a hybrid between Issey Miyake textiles and Lucio Fontana art pieces with the big cuts. A kind of slit where you can enter and look in. I think as a main issue, it projects an image that maybe looks elegant or sculptural, but that is actually a purely result of the energy performance of the sun that you can say, what makes the building look beautiful is what makes it perform beautifully in terms of energy.

It ended up helping us that someone or even whenever we ourselves were suggesting to change things, the client was remained very loyal to the vision that was presented in the competition. Many times the client formulated this idea of the building looks like an elegant girl walking through the city because of this the slip in the facade, and almost like the flow of the lines that came almost like hair. So in that sense, the aesthetics of sustainability ended up being the underpinning power that would protect the logic of sustainability from changes or from cost reductions.

▼起伏的建筑外墙系统，an undulating building envelope

▼立面的褶皱延续至内部，the folding elements are extended to interior

如果可以赢得深圳歌剧院的竞赛，对我个人而言可谓是“美梦成真”。
“It would be a dream come true if we would end up building the Opera in Shenzhen.”

2.
据悉，BIG已经入围了深圳歌剧院设计的最终竞赛，可以和我们多聊聊这个项目吗？
We are glad to hear that BIG has been selected as finalists for the international competition to design the future Shenzhen Opera House. Would you mind speaking a little about the project and BIG’s proposal?

如果可以赢得深圳歌剧院的竞赛，对我个人而言可谓是“美梦成真”。作为丹麦人，我们从小就知道悉尼的歌剧院是丹麦建筑师Jørn Utzon设计的。我和他的孙子曾经一起在建筑学院上课。作为建筑师，你所能获得的最高荣誉几乎就是为一座城市打造出一个地标性的建筑，当人们看到他的时候，会想到这座城市，甚至这个国家。我想，深圳歌剧院也很可能具有这样的意义。今年45岁的我，可以说是深圳的“同龄人”，而这样一座年轻的城市，能够由一群与它同代的建筑师来为之赋予身份特征，这本身就是一件足够有诗意的事。鉴于竞赛还未结束，并且我们对本次竞赛持以非常重视的态度，因此我们在现阶段还无法透露这个项目的设计细节。

It would be a dream come true if we would end up building the Opera in Shenzhen. All Danes grew up learning that the Opera in Sydney was designed by an Danish architect, Jørn Utzon. I went to architecture school with his grandson. Almost the highest honor you can achieve as an architect is to create a landmark that ends up almost defining the character of a city or a country, or in the case of Sydney Opera, almost an entire continent. When people see other city opera, they think of Australia. I think the Shenzhen Opera could very well have a similar significance. Now I’m 45 years old. It also seems to make almost poetic sense that the architectural character and identity of such a young city could be imagined and designed and built by a generation of architects of the same generation as the city itself. The competition is still ongoing and our design proposal is confidential. We take this very seriously and respect it, so I cannot share details about our design at this stage.

▼新深圳歌剧院位置示意，the new Shenzhen Opera House – Location map

3.
BIG近期还将在中国开展哪些项目？
What other inspiring projects will BIG carry out in China in the near future?

我们现在正在为Terminus打造他们在重庆的总部，实际上这个项目已经在建造中了。Terminus是一家非凡的科技公司，其业务涉及人工智能和机器人技术等。我们希望通过这次的合作来协助他们营造能够适应其未来发展的工作场所。

We’re now working with designing the headquarters in Chongqing for Terminus. It is actually under construction, so I have a feeling we’re going to be announcing the design very soon. Essentially it’s an extraordinary technology company that works with artificial intelligence, machine learning, and robotics. It’s a great company to collaborate with and to assist in accommodating their future as a workplace.

▼BIG为Terminus重庆总部打造的“未来城市”，BIG designed “Future City” for Terminus’s Headquarters in Chongqing

______
项目
Projects

“我们希望努力创造包容的建筑，尽可能地吸引人们前来体验。”
“I think the architecture that we try to create is very often inclusive and inviting that the buildings are a form to be as inviting and as engaging as possible.”

1.
从2010年上海世博会的丹麦馆，到近两年设计的The Plus家具工厂和爱彼博物馆，这些作品均结合了“环形”和“螺旋”和“中央环岛”的意象，这些意象为什么受到BIG的喜爱并融入BIG的多个设计作品？

From the Danish pavilion at Shanghai Expo 2010, to recently completed Musée Atelier Audemars Piguet, as well as the design for “The Plus” factory, in these projects we could find a formal language defined by a “loop”, a “spiral” or a “roundabout”. Why have such forms been integrated into many of BIG’s architectural works?

相比于形式本身，这些项目其实更加关注形式能够给使用者带来怎样的体验。我们认为建筑应该能将人们引入其中。上海世博会丹麦馆就像是丹麦城市的缩影，设有丹麦和哥本哈根城市自行车使用的蓝色自行车道。哥本哈根是全球第一个推出共享单车的城市，这一理念现已随处可见。我们希望给予人们自行车旅行的体验。如果要在立体建筑物内骑车，必须要设置坡道；而如果要将长长的坡道设置在有限的基地内，必然要采用旋转环绕的形式。

It’s maybe less about the form itself, but what the form gives to the users. I think it has to do with an architecture of invitation. In Shanghai, it was the idea to make almost like a fragment of Danish city complete with the blue bicycle lanes of Denmark and Copenhagen city bikes. Copenhagen was the first country in the world to introduce them. This idea of bike sharing is very common now everywhere, but Copenhagen pioneered it. We wanted to give people the experience of riding a bike. If you have to ride a bike through a three dimensional building, you have to use ramps. And if you want to fit a long ramp in a small site, you end up with a notch or a spiral or a loop.

▼2010年上海世博会的丹麦馆，是BIG在丹麦之外的国家建成的第一个项目
Danish pavilion at Shanghai Expo 2010, which was the first building BIG built ouside Denmark

爱彼博物馆采用了类似的设计手法，我们希望在项目中将时间描述成一种线性概念，可以从一处去往另一处。通过设置双螺旋系统，我们得以在一个紧凑的空间内创造一条线性流线，不同的是人们可以在两个螺旋之间来回移动。

在我们的每一个项目中，建筑的几何或拓扑形式都是为了吸引使用者和游客来体验空间。在家具工厂中，与大多惧怕工业间谍的甲方不同，我们的客户希望能够展示自己。他们希望邀请人们来参观家具的制造流程，是自己成为世界上最透明、最可持续的工厂。顺着螺旋流线，你可以走上屋顶，或是下到外侧的庭院之中。整个建筑就像一份热烈的邀请，鼓励游客观看、享受，与工厂建立良好的关系。

Similarly for the Musée Atelier Audemars Piguet, where we wanted to describe the concept of time as a linear concept, with the possibility of traveling from one aspect to another. By creating a double spiral, we can create a linear journey in a compact space, but you can always shift from one concentric layer to the next.

In each of every case, the geometric or the topological form, creates an invitation for the user and the visitor to experience the building. In the furniture factory, it’s because of the idea they say, instead of being afraid of industrial espionage, they almost encourage it. They wanted to invite people to come and see how they make the furniture because they wanted to be the most sustainable and the most transparent factory in the world. You can actually move up on the roofs, and on the outside you can descend into the courtyard with this spiral. It’s just like a radical invitation for visitors to take a look and enjoy and engage with the factory.

▼瑞士爱彼博物馆，现代化的螺旋式玻璃结构展馆与自然景观浑然天成
The Musée Atelier Audemars Piguet in Switzerland, a contemporary spiral-shaped glass pavilion seamlessly rising from the ground
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

▼爱彼博物馆内部的线性流线空间，the linear journey in the Musée Atelier Audemars Piguet

▼挪威The Plus家具工厂的中央环岛，a logistic roundabout in The Plus furniture factory, Norway
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

每当谈到高端建筑，人们往往会用到类似于“高冷”这样的词汇。然而，我们希望努力创造包容的建筑，尽可能地吸引人们前来体验。丹麦的乐高之家是一栋和上述项目截然不同的建筑，它由一系列体块堆叠而成，就像乐高一样。当我们把一些体块分开，阳光便可以照入体块之间；而通过巧妙的处理，你就可以从一个体块走到另一个体块的屋顶，以此类推。这个项目中没有螺旋，没有坡道，也没有环岛，但它依然是一个足够吸引人的建筑。

When talking about high-end architecture, people use the word “exclusive”. I think the architecture that we try to create is very often inclusive and inviting that the buildings are a form to be as inviting and as engaging as possible. You can see in things like the Lego House in Denmark, it has a very different architecture. It’s more like a series of overlapping volumes, like Lego bricks that I pulled apart so light can enter in between them, and then they’re manipulated, so you can actually go from one brick to the roof of the next and the next. There’s no spiral, and there are no ramps or loops. But it’s still an architecture of invitation.

▼丹麦的乐高之家，没有螺旋，也没有环岛，但它依然是一个足够吸引人的建筑，
Without spiral, ramps or loops, the Lego House is still an inviting architecture
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

“现在，我的建筑师生涯翻开了新的篇章，亚洲的项目带给了我巨大的灵感和活力，让我对未来在这里的发展充满期待。”
“It’s somehow a new chapter that is proving to be very inspiring and very invigorating to deal with, and I look forward to my practice in Asia as an exciting new chapter of my life and works as an architect.”

2.
你在设计中是如何理解与处理不同国家的文化背景的，尤其是在亚洲地区的项目中？
How do you usually understand and cope with the cultural backgrounds of different countries in your design, especially for those in Asia?

我的合伙人中，有两位分别是美籍华人和美籍新加坡人。因此，在我们公司的上层确实存在一些“神秘”的亚洲元素。另一方面，对于我们来说所有项目的起始阶段都像是一个调研过程。在这个阶段，我们尝试让自己理解现场的每一个细节，其中自然包括文化因素。我认为共情是建筑师最重要的能力之一。共情是创造力的一种。当你与某人共情的时候，你会尝试站到他们所处的位置，想象他们所面临的挑战，以及他们的梦想和期望。通过将自己与他们的角色互换，你才能去理解他人。过去几年，我逐渐开始花更多时间在亚洲城市设计项目，这对我来说是一个巨大的挑战。

目前，我们除了正在中国设立自己的公司，还在新加坡、泰国等地设计重要的新项目，日本自然也不例外。这些国家气候不同，文化不同，拥有不同的历史建筑遗迹，需要我们以设计来回应。它们使我的工作变得更加令人兴奋。根据统计学上的研究，人的创造力其实并不会随着年龄的增长而下降，而更多是会因为长期做着重复的事情而下降。在我工作的头20年中，除了上海世博馆和深圳能源大厦，我在亚洲鲜有项目，这在今天看来似乎有些“浪费”了我作为建筑师的角色。现在，我的建筑师生涯翻开了新的篇章，亚洲的项目带给了我巨大的灵感和活力，让我对未来在这里的发展充满期待。

Two of my partners are Chinese American and Singaporean American. In the partnership we do have some Southeast Asian “myth”. However, with all our projects, I think the beginning stage is almost like an educational fact-finding process, where we try to educate ourselves to understand the specifics of the situation, and of course also the culture. I think one of the most important abilities of an architect is empathy. Empathy is a form of creativity. When you empathize with someone, you try to put yourself in their place. You’ll try to imagine: What are the challenges they face? What are the dreams and desires that drive them? It’s by putting yourself in someone else’s place that you can try to accommodate them. It has been a great challenge and adventure for me, over the last couple of years, to begin to spend more time and to work more with the Asian countries.

Today we’re apart from the fact that we are on the process of establishing ourselves in China, we are building significantly in Singapore and Thailand, and of course in Japan. Each of these countries have radically different climates, different cultures, and different architectural heritage to address and to deal with. My job becomes more exciting. Now I’m 45 years old, it’s good to know the fact that statistically there is no tendency for people to get less creative with age, but there is a tendency for people to get less creative the longer they do the same thing. I think in that sense it is somehow the luxury of being an architect that now I haven’t done much work in Asia for the first 20 years of my career, apart from the Shanghai Expo pavilion and the Shenzhen Energy mansion. It’s somehow a new chapter that is proving to be very inspiring and very invigorating to deal with, and I look forward to it as an exciting new chapter of my life and works as an architect.

▼正在建设中的新加坡CapitaSpring摩天大楼，CapitaSpring tower in progress in Singapore

▼BIG与Hijjas和Ramboll联手打造的马来西亚槟城“Biodivercity”方案
the masterplan for Penang South Islands, designed by BIG, Hijjas and Ramboll
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

▼位于日本富士山麓的丰田“编织之城”，Toyota Woven City at the foothills of Mt. Fuji in Japan
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

“最强大的集体是由自由的个人组成的；反过来，自由的个人结合在一起，就变成了社区。”
“Somehow the most powerful is a collective that is composed of free individuals, or free individuals coming together to create a community.”

3.
BIG在许多项目中强调了“村落”和“社区”的概念，你认为在未来的科技和社会发展中，社区的意义和价值体现在哪？
The concepts of “village” and “community” have been emphasized in many of BIG’s projects. What do you see as the meaning and value of community in future development of technology and society?

作为建筑师，经常要兼顾个人和集体这两个看似对立的概念。然而我坚信集体主义和个人主义并不是相互矛盾的。事物总是一体两面的，你无法为了集体牺牲个人，也不能为了个人放弃集体。某种程度上来说，最强大的集体是由自由的个人组成的；反过来，自由的个人结合在一起，就变成了社区。以乐高之家为例，它的设计以孩童为重点。谚语云：“抚养儿童是全村之责。”一个孩子，他不仅需要父母，还需要朋友、叔叔阿姨、老师、医生、邻居，等等。以这个想法为出发点，我们将乐高之家设计成了一座三维村庄，个人元素在这里集结。由多种元素结合的项目，最终往往变成了一个单一的整体。

As an architect, you always have to somehow straddle the seeming contradiction between the collective and the individual. The funny thing is, I believe collectivism and individualism are actually not contradicting. There are two aspects of the same story because you can’t have the collective at the expense of the individual, and you also can’t have the individual at the expense of the collective. Somehow the most powerful is a collective that is composed of free individuals, or free individuals coming together to create a community. For example, for the Lego house, it was designed very much thinking about children, and there’s a beautiful saying: “it takes a village to raise a child”. A child needs parents, and also needs friends, aunts and uncles, teachers, doctors and neighbors, so it takes a whole village to raise a child. We came up with this idea that the Lego house should be a three dimensional village of individual elements coming together to create a whole. I think very often you see that in the work that out of many elements, a single entity arises.

▼乐高之家被设计为一座三维村庄，个人元素在这里集结（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）
the Lego House was designed as a three dimensional village of individual elements coming together to create a whole

漂浮城市的设计理念是从浮岛单体出发，创造某种系统性的东西。在我们设计的哥本哈根学生之家项目中，你也可以看到一系列由浮筒支撑的集装箱汇聚成了一栋建筑，这种将小元素组合在一起的形式与漂浮城市是一致的。如果一座城市是由漂浮的岛屿组成的，我们就可以将岛屿组合成不同的形状。想象一下，在现有的城市发展中，如果你突然想要修建一条贯穿城市的大道，将会是十分困难的，因为城市已经被建好了。但是在漂浮城市中，你只要将两座岛屿之间的距离稍微扩大一些，就可以放下一条更宽的管道。漂浮城市为建筑师带来了一个全新的思考领域。

The Oceanix City is of the idea to imagine something systemic where you can start by making a single floating island. Also you can see the student housing we’ve created in Copenhagen culminating with the floating pontoons of containers, like small elements that you can group together to form the equivalent of an island in the Oceanix City. If you have a city that is made of islands that are floating, you can imagine putting them together in different configurations. You can also imagine if they grow, then suddenly, if you want to run a big street through an existing city, it becomes very difficult because the city has already been built. In OceanixCity, you can just make a bigger canal simply by moving two island’s a little bit further away. It provides a whole new canvas for the architects to play with once you start imagining floating cities.

▼漂浮城市可以从一系列小型的社区发展为能够无限扩展的城市，Oceanix City is designed to grow, transform and adapt organically over time, evolving from neighborhoods to cities with the possibility of scaling indefinitely
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

▼哥本哈根学生之家项目，集装箱借助浮筒漂浮在海面，the student housing in Copenhagen, culminating with the floating pontoons of containers

与丰田合作设计的位于东京的编织之城是我们在城市设计方面的另一个尝试。它就像是未来城市的原型，我们可以在其中测试无人驾驶汽车、电动汽车、能源细胞技术、服务机动性等不同高新科技元素。项目的尺度让我们可以在系统的层面上测试这些技术的品质。丰田不仅止步于做一家汽车制造公司，他们还希望成为城市交通领域的先锋。为此，他们不能只停留在产品层面，而需要整体性思考。为了应对马上就要到来的挑战，这种思考是不可或缺的。

It also ties into scale that with the Woven City that we designed together with Toyota in Tokyo. It’s also the idea of trying to create almost like a prototypical town where we can test a lot of the different technologies, such as self-driving cars, electric vehicles, fuel cell technology, mobility as a service, etc. At a scale where you can test the systemic qualities of these technologies, Toyota was just realizing that their future was not just enough to be a car maker, but to be an urban mobility company. And as such, they couldn’t just think about the product. This kind of holistic thinking is some of the thinking that we need if we want to address and face the challenges of the most immediate future.

▼丰田编织之城，Toyota Woven City （点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

“科技自由的一个表现是不同交通方式的灵活变化和无缝衔接。”
“One of the freedoms of technology is that you can imagine a much more flexible and seamless interplay of different forms of mobility.”

4.
在日本的丰田“编织之城”和马来西亚的“BiodiverCity”项目中，都强调了多样化交通系统的建设，你认为未来城市的交通系统应该是什么样的？
The advancement of all aspects of mobility is highlighted in BIG’s masterplans for Toyota Woven City and BiodiverCity. What do you think the transportation system of a future city should be like?

我认为“多模式交通”是解决这个问题的答案。当今许多城市面临的问题之一是规划时只考虑了汽车交通。科技自由的一个表现是不同交通方式的灵活变化和无缝衔接。在编织之城中，我们设想了三条不同的道路：一条是类似传统道路的机动车道和人行道；一条是供行人和滑板车、自行车等使用的景观步道，有特殊目的的汽车，如餐车和临时店铺，也可以在这里行驶；最后一条如同公园，仅供步行者使用。三条道路在各个方向上不断重复，交织在一起，形成了一套道路网格，人们可以通过不同的方式到达城市的各个角落。在这种方式下，三分之二的道路将由不同的公共空间组成，包含社交和环境功能，而这正是现在的城市所缺失的。在这种复合交通的城市中，未来的公共空间以及人们在城市中的移动方式将变得更加丰富多彩。

I think that the simple answer is “multimodal”. I think one of the problems of many cities today is that they were planned thinking almost only about the car. I think one of the freedoms of technology is that you can imagine a much more flexible and seamless interplay of different forms of mobility. In the Woven City, we imagined that every third street is different. One is for autonomous vehicles and pedestrians, almost like a classic street. The other is like a promenade for pedestrians and personal mobility like scooters and bicycles, but also vehicles that are there for specific purpose, like a food truck or a pop up store. And then the last third is like a park only for pedestrians. And those three just repeat themselves in both directions so they weave together to form a network where you can actually move through the whole city via various kinds of routes. In a way, 2/3 of the street is going to be different kinds of public space for social and environmental functions that we don’t have space for today. This kind of multi-modal city will mean that the public space of the future and how we move around the city is going to be much more varied and much more diverse than it is today.

▼丰田“编织之城”项目模型（左）；编织网格（右），Toyota Woven City project model (left)；the woven grid system (right) （点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

▼街区的演变（左）；三种不同的道路（右），three different roads；three different roads (right)

▼自动驾驶车道，automatic lane

▼在BiodiverCity项目中，BIG构建了一个独立自主的、同时将水、陆、空三种维度融合起来的公共交通网络
BiodiverCity supports a water, air and land-based autonomous public transportation network（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

我们的优势是能够与不同公司合作，尝试未来交通不同的可能方式。现在我们正在和Virgin Hyperloop One合作研发未来的超音速真空管电子磁悬浮交通系统。该项目是基于Elon Musk提出的“超级高铁”概念而创立。公司目前则由Richard Branson和Virgin集团作为主要资方。同时我们也和Terminus这样的尖端科技公司合作，共同构想机器人在未来城市中的应用。不过，我们的角色不仅仅是参与某个元素的设计，更多地是要着眼于如何将各种不同的元素进行组合，使它们形成一个城市整体。

We have the privilege of working with different companies that in various ways are involved in thinking about the future of mobility. We’re working with Virgin Hyperloop One, the company initiated by Elon Musk, and now the main investor is Richard Branson and Virgin Group. We were thinking about the future of ultra-fast, super-sonic vacuum tube electric, propelled magnetic, levitating mobility system. We’re also working with a company like Terminus to imagine what kinds of autonomous robots might be a part of our immediate future. But I think maybe more than necessarily being involved in designing individual elements, our role is more to look at holistically how can these different elements come together to form an urban whole.

▼Hyperloop One作为全新的交通形式，将彻底改变未来的城市配置
Hyperloop One, as a brand new system of transportation, will completely reconfigure people’s mental map of the city
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

▼分析图，diagrams

“我们现在所居住的城市就是城市的未来。”
“ the city of the future is the city we already live in”

5.
您认为什么是影响未来城市发展的最关键因素？理想的未来城市是什么样子？
What do you think are the most critical factors influencing future urban development? Please describe the ideal future city in your mind.

弹性和可持续。我们正在品尝气候变化的恶果，我们的城市环境必须以十分现实的方式来应对其带来的问题，这便是城市的弹性。我们在纽约Dryline设计了一个名为BIG U的大型项目。在这个项目中，我们重新设计了下曼哈顿的滨水区域，使其可以承受狂风巨浪以及海平面上升带来的冲击。我们还设计了谷歌位于山区的新总部，光电板覆盖了建筑的整个立面。项目的地基是一个地热站，可以与大地交换热能。配套景观则为一套黑水处理系统，可以实实在在地净化所有工作环境中排放的废水。建筑或城市项目就像是一个人造的生态系统，所有的设计都要满足弹性和可持续性。我相信随着时代发展，这些元素将成为建筑和城市设计不可或缺的一部分。

我们参与设计了一系列项目，均考虑了这些因素，如编织之城，漂浮城市，BiodiverCity等。现在，地球上已有78亿人口，而联合国认为100亿是我们的人口极限，这意味着75%的城市已经建成了，我们现在所居住的城市就是城市的未来，它们将会逐渐转型、适应，与变化共存。我们所面临的挑战是研究和学习现在的城市，喜爱它们，保存并强化其中的优秀元素，同时思考可以为它赋予哪些全新的品质。

▼“漂浮城市”旨在打造全球第一个弹性化的、可持续发展的漂浮社区
the OceanixCity project propose a vision for the world’s first resilient and sustainable floating community
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

▼BiodiverCity，致力于在槟城南岛这一全球最具生物多样性的地区实现人与自然的和谐共存
BiodiverCity, where people and nature co-exist in one of the most biodiverse places on the planet at the southern shore of Penang Island
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

Resilience and sustainability. Resilience is the fact that we are now experiencing some of the consequences of climate change, which means that our urban environments have to address those consequences in very real ways. One of our bigger projects right now is the Dryline, also called the BIG U, in New York, where we are redesigning the waterfront of lower Manhattan to be able to resist the impact of storm surge and rising sea levels. We’re also designing the new Google Headquarters in mountain view, where the entire facade is clad in photovoltaics. The entire foundation is a geothermal plant that exchanges heat and cold with the ground, and the entire landscape is a black water treatment plant that actually cleanse the waste water from the whole work environment. As an architectural or an urban project, it’s almost like a human-made ecology that is entirely designed towards resilience and sustainability. And I think those elements will become more and more integral to architecture and city design as we move along.

We are in involved in a handful of projects where we’re looking at this, like the Woven City, the Oceanix city and the BiodiverCity. An interesting thought is that we are now 7.8 billion people on earth, and the United Nations believe that we will only become 10, which means that three quarters of our cities are already here. For the whole world, the city of the future is the city we already live in. It’s just going to transform, adapt and accommodate these changes. I think the challenge we face is to look and to learn from the cities we live today, to love the things about them, to work well to preserve and enhance the qualities that they have, and to imagine what qualities we can give them that they don’t have today.

▼正在进行的“BIG U”项目重新设计了下曼哈顿的滨水区域，使其可以承受狂风巨浪以及海平面上升带来的冲击，By “BIG U”, BIG is redesigning the waterfront of lower Manhattan to be able to resist the impact of storm surge and rising sea levels
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

BIG部分近期建成项目:
Some of BIG’s featured built projects:

▼挪威扭体博物馆，The Twist, Norway，2o19（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

▼奥胡斯人造岛住宅综合体和海滨浴场（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）
AARhus residential complex & Aarhus Harbor Bath on the manmade island Ø4, 2018-19

▼哥本哈根动物园熊猫馆（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）
Panda House at Copenhagen Zoo, 2019

▼法国MÉCA文化经济创意中心，MÉCA, Bordeaux, 2019
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

▼斯德哥尔摩79&PARK住宅区，79&PARK, Stockholm, 2018
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

▼纽约VIΛ 57 West住宅楼，VIA 57 WEST, New York, 2016
（点击这里查看更多 Click here to see more）

___________
未来计划与展望
Heading to the future

1.
BIG是否将在中国开设办公室？
Is BIG planning to have an office in China?

事实上我们已经在正式筹备中国办公室的建立。我们计划先从一个城市起步，然后看看发展如何。上海是中国的商业之都，北京是历史和政治之都，而深圳则是一个以创新和技术见长的面向未来的城市，我想这正与BIG对未来的展望不谋而合，因此我们选择将深圳作为在中国实践的起点。当然，未来我们也很有可能在中国的其他大城市开设办公室。

Actually we are officially in the process of establishing an office in China. We are going to start in one spot, and then let’s see what happens. Where Shanghai is the business capital and Beijing is the capital for history and politics, Shenzhen is another future-forward city focused on innovation and technology. Since BIG is always looking towards the future, we see Shenzhen as a natural place to open an office, but we could also easily see a future BIG office in any of these great cities in China.

2.
作为一个项目遍及全世界的事务所负责人，您的一天通常是如何度过的？对于未来有哪些计划？
As the founding partner of an international office with projects all over the world, what is a typical day like for you? What is your recent plan for the future?

最近因为疫情的原因可能会与平时有些不同。我的旅行相比以前少了很多。应该说，作为BIG的创意总监，其实并没有所谓“通常的一天”，因为每天都有各种各样新的问题和挑战需要应对。昨天早晨我从哥本哈根的床上醒来，前两天我从墨西哥城醒来，而再往前几天，我还在得克萨斯的Boca Chica，马斯克正在那里建造太空飞船。不论是生活、工作，还是当今的技术与未来的形式，所有的一切都包含着太多的层面和可能性，我想这也是我的工作最让我感到兴奋的地方。昨天下午我从托儿所接回儿子，然后陪他玩到睡觉。有时候我的工作会特别忙，也有不那么忙的时候。我要说我很佩服那些能够在生活中有所成就，同时还能兼顾孩子的人，因为照顾孩子本身就是一份辛苦的全职工作。

另外，我们现在正在建设BIG在哥本哈根的新总部，这也是我们第一次为自己设计总部。作为建筑师你可以经常抱怨抱怨客户，不过这次看来好像没办法了，哈哈。

I think the typical day is a little bit different lately because of the COVID. I have been travelling a lot less than I used to. I would say, as a creative director or a chief visionary of BIG, there is no typical day. Everyday somehow comes with whole new challenges, problems and potentials to look after. Yesterday I woke up in Copenhagen. Two days before I woke up in Mexico City, and two days before that in Boca Chica, Texas, where Musk is building the starship that will eventually get us to the moon. So in that sense, I think one of the things that make it exciting to have my role is that there are so many different aspects of life and work, technology, and giving form to the future. Yesterday I picked up my son from daycare at 4:30 pm. I was just hanging out with him until he went to bed at 10. Sometimes I work a lot and sometimes I don’t work very much. Thank god. I have a lot of respect for anyone who’s managed to achieve anything in their life and also having children, because that’s a full time career in itself.

We’re now building our headquarters here in Copenhagen. It’s the first time we build for ourselves. Let’s see how it goes. Normally as an architect you can always blame the client, but we won’t be able to do that here, ha-ha.

▼Bjarke Ingels在温哥华的TED演讲，主题为“Bigger Than Us”
Bjarke Ingels speaks at TED 2019: Bigger Than Us, Vancouver ©Ryan Lash/TED

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