gooood Interview NO.11 — Liu Yichun

Deshaus Liu Yichun: Connect mindscape and landscape with structure.

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第11期为您奉上的是大舍建筑柳亦春。更多关于他:大舍在gooood

gooood team interviews architects, artist and designer from all over the world. Your recommendations and suggestions are welcomed!
gooood Interview NO.10 introduces Liu Yichun | Deshaus. More: Deshaus on gooood.

▽ 12分钟访谈视频,建议选择超清720P观看,12 minutes video, viewing in 720P is recommended 

大舍的建筑既有柳亦春和陈屹峰两位合伙人在设计上相互影响、共同协作的作品,也有各自相对独立思考的创作,这些作品也都包含了大舍事务所年轻的建筑师们的劳动与智慧。这次非常高兴地采访到了大舍的合伙人之一柳亦春建筑师,听他讲述大舍建筑的故事及其在设计上的点点滴滴……

Either coperatedprojects conducted by both founders Liu Yichun and Chen Qifeng, or independent projects lead by one, Atelier Deshaus’s works are the outcomes of the hard work and intelligence of these young architects. gooood are honored to have been given the chance to interview one of the founding partner Liu Yichun, to learn more about the stories of Atelier Deshaus and its design and share with you.

1.
2014年龙美术馆建成,可以看作大舍重要的成长里程碑。在这之后,大舍关注的方向发生哪些变化?
The completion of Long Museum in 2014 can be regarded as a milestoneto Atelier Deshaus. Did it influence or change the focusing area of Atelier Deshaus in some way?

在龙美术馆之前,我们大部分的创作,以如何去还原或者再现“江南”作为一种地域特征空间的营造为前提。龙美术馆之后的设计更加具体,不会去想一些特别宏大的命题,而是会针对一个具体的场地给出具体的答案。在这些很具体的设计里面,结构和场所之间的关系慢慢地变成了我们在建筑设计当中一个最核心的话题

Yes, it did. We were more interested in restoring or representing the unique space structure of Jiangnan in our works. But our designs became more specific after Long Museum, eliminating the vastness in concepts and giving site-specific response to each design. Along with this progress, the correspondence with the structure and architectural space became our focus point.

▽ 龙美术馆之前时期部分作品,projects before Long Museum

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▽ 龙美术馆,Long Museum

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▽ 龙美术馆之后时期部分作品,projects after Long Museum

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2.
您觉得自己目前所面临的最大挑战是什么?
What is the biggest challenge you are facing now?

对我来说最大的挑战是如何去经营一个事务所,如何让更多的年轻建筑师能够共同地参与到不同的项目里来,然后又能维持我们一贯的思考和保持一个非常好的设计品质。同时大家也能在这个共同体里面贡献自己的长处和学到更多的关于设计的知识与方法,并且每天都过得很高兴,这是一个最大的挑战。

I think that finding out how to run this firm is our main biggest challenge now. How can we keep our design on track with consistency and excellent quality while involving more young architects in the project, allowing them to contribute and develop their skills and having fun? It is most difficult task putting in front of us.

▽ 忙碌的大舍办公室,busy office of Deshaus

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3.
我注意到大舍的很多作品以白色为主,这是为什么呢?
Is there a reason why the white color dominate Atelier Deshaus’s works?

有两个原因,首先是为了强调一种抽象感与体量感。因为刚开始我们的房子很多是讲究体块和体块之间的关系,而白色更加能够让那些关系呈现出来,它会让建筑变得抽象。

后来我觉得当你对于材料等东西的经验没有办法足够好地去把控整全局时,通常采用白色会是一个比较讨巧的方法。白色它会让很多关系呈现出来,包括光线,空间的距离等等。白色应该还是一个比较值得去做的颜色。

I think there are two reasons. On one hand, white is abstract. Our architectures are more about the interrelationship of buildings at the earlier stage. The white blocks are expressive in emphasizing the abstraction and volume of our design.

On the other hand, white issmart. Especially when you’re not skilled and experienced enough to handle and control the whole project, the identities of your design, such as the ever-changing light condition or the scale of spaces, gets easier to be observed in white.

▽ 部分白色为基调的作品,some of the projects in white tone

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4.
我注意到建筑和院子的关联是大舍新作中重要的特点,比如桃李园中学和安亭汽车城,“园”是否代表大舍未来的趋势?
Buildings with outdoor spaces characterize Atelier Deshaus’s recent works, for example in Tao Li Garden Experimental school and Anting Automobile City, is it a spatial approach that would be continued in your future works?

中国传统的建筑比较讲究建筑的外部空间,因为建筑的内部空间都是一定的营造法式,出来的空间差不多。这么来看,我觉得中国传统建筑更大的魅力就在于外部空间,也就是院子和院子之间的关系,院子和房子之间的关系,院子和绿化植物之间的关系。

所以从一开始我们的工作的重点就是在建筑外部空间的营造上。从夏雨幼儿园,到青浦青少年活动中心,再到桃李园学校,还有螺旋艺廊等等,都会去寻找一个建筑跟院子组合的空间的关系,这是我们创作中一个经久不变的主题

Limited by the given construction system, the interior spaces in traditional Chinese architecture varied little, while the exterior spaces, with diverse interrelationships of courtyards, buildings and the greening, are truly fascinating.

It inspired us to focus more on the exterior spaces in our projects. The composite spaces with buildings and yards characterized them, no matter in our very earlier projects Xiayu Kindergarten, Spiral Gallery, or our recent works Qingpu Youth Center and Tao Li Garden Experimental school.

▽ 部分作品的外部空间营造,outdoor spaces of some projects

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好像每过几个月自己对建筑都会有一点新的认识,我不想去固化一种方式。但是如果一定说一个现在所关注的设计重点或方向,其实还是有的。最近在跟笔记人老师聊天的时候,我把最近思考的结构跟场所之间的关系做了一个描述,收在最近写的一篇文章《内在的结构与外在的风景》里,我请教他这个题目用英文怎么翻译比较好,他根据我所描述的内容给了一个译法,structuring with mindscape and landscape。就是用结构去联系心灵与土地。mindscape是脑海,landscape是风景。

但是我所表述的并不仅仅是风景,比如说当我去要做一个坡顶的房子,我为什么用坡顶?因为上海这个地方下雨天很多,然后我们的传统建筑也因为下雨多做了坡顶。坡顶的房子被建了一百年、两百年以后,当坡顶一旦出现,人们在坡顶空间下面就会有一个家的感觉了。家的感觉已经不是跟风景和场所的关系,而是跟人内心发生关系了。

所以当你选择一个结构形式的时候,它其实同时会关联着这两部分的内容。我想用结构的方式去联系这两部分的内容,这会是一件在我看来建筑里面比较本质的事情。

Yet I do not like the idea of limiting myself in a single design approach. I feel like learning a bit more about architecture every few months. Though I do have certaininterested topics. I wrote a paper discussing my recent thoughts on how to connect human and land,titled structuring with mindscape and landscape.
But it is not only about landscape. For example, hundreds of years ago, our ancestors used pitched roof to create a climate-specific shelter for their families, which is why today a space underneath a sloping roof gives one a homey feeling. The history is deeply rooted in one’s mind and the structure is no longer related to the objective conditions. For me, connecting mindscape and landscape with structure is the nature of architecture, and it is exactly what we are trying to do in Atelier Deshaus.

▽ 大舍新办公室也是采用坡屋顶建筑,the roof of the new office is also sloped

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从龙美术馆开始就是这样的了。设计龙美术馆的时候,其实是比较直觉的,就是比较自发,想的没有那么多。但是确实是想着怎样用一种结构体的方式,去跟既有的场地发生关系,这里是有两层内涵的:一个是它原来的地下室已经造好,一个有着八米四的柱网的结构空间。我就想能否用一种墙体的空间的形式把柱网的空间转换,让它从一个为了停车的空间转换为一个为了展览的空间。

同时在那个基地里还有一列被保留下来的工业时期的运煤漏斗。运煤漏斗是为了把煤通过传送带从漏斗撒到下面的火车运走而做的功能结构形态。

那种设计方式产生的结果,我认为在今天运煤功能已经不复存在的时候,仍然存在着一种特殊的场所感。这个场所感既提示了原来那里曾经是一个运煤的码头,同时又暗示你,当你了解到煤是怎么从上面漏下去被火车运走时,场景在你脑子里面是会自动补白的。

工业文化以结构的方式在场所遗存在我看来是一种趋于永恒的方式,那样的结构即使功能变了,但其的文化意义和场所感仍然会存在。

所以我想我新做的这个建筑在千百年以后,比如说已经不再是美术馆了,只有那些结构体存在在那里,它仍然可以解释,那个场所曾经存在过的历史,跟大地的关系,所发生的故事。结构是不会倒的,它要么不存在,要么存在着-剥离了所有的外在,留下了核心。我认为这是建筑自主性的一个特别重要的存在

所以我希望用这样一种结构的方式,去跟功能,去跟我们记忆相关的东西,以及跟建筑所处的特定场所之间,去建立一种关系

We followed our intuitions when working on Long Museum rather than intentionally designed something. But we did consider the relation of the newly designed volume to the existing 8.4 meters column network in the basement. With the “vault-umbrella”we successfully transformed a parking space into an exhibition one.

Meanwhile, the Coal-Hopper-Unloading-Bridge at the wharf was kept. It was built specifically for unloading the coal from the ship to the train. However, when the freight terminal vanished, it still reminds people what the place used to be. And one will have those scenes in his mind when reading the story of it.

It is an industrial heritage. The structure become eternal with its culture significant, the sense of the place is everlasting.

That is exactly what I want to achieve. Without being a museum, the structure of Long Museum can still express what it was, what the landscape was and what the stories were. Unlike functions which can be transformed, a structure is either existing or inexistence. It is the nature of architecture. And with it, we can connect landscape with mindscape.

▽ 所见即所得,本真,永恒的结构,what you see is what you have, structure is something permanent

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5.
你是常常往工地跑的建筑师吗?
Do you go to your construction site quite often?

当然了。我每一个项目,那工地到了最关键的时候,比如说像龙美术馆的时候,我最多的时候一天去三次,差不多最后一个月每天都要去。因为在工地的时候,首先有很多问题需要解决。一个是工人的问题,就是施工的问题,哪儿做错了,另外其实你是发现自己的问题,自己哪儿设计的错了,当然这个错我觉得更多会是尺度,然后是感觉,就是说你当初感觉的时候,这个栏杆应该是这个样子的,或者你感觉到这个门应该是这么高的,当你走到那个现场的时候,你发现,哎呀,这个门应该再低一点。那个时候我就会快速地调整我的设计。

我觉得去工地才是建筑跟人的身体真正发生关系的时候。现场感肯定是少不了的,是必须通过现场来验证的。在最关键的时候如果你不在的话,那工人做完了,你就没有机会调整了。

在工地是最愉快的时候了,因为那个时候你就会觉得,自己好像全身的各个毛孔都张开了,到了工地里面我马上就会知道,这个建筑将来有多好,然后哪里将来会很差,那个感觉特别直观,所以就会迅速作出判断。当然那时候少不了要去跟人磨,因为你要改可能会影响到工期或者造价,或者是别的等等。还有一些地方是工人做错了,然后如果改代价会比较大的时候,我会根据他们做错的去重新去调整相关的别的东西。还有的东西是自己比如说某一项想错了,然后我会去想,不一定改这儿,可以改别的地方,再去把这个错的东西变成一个对的东西。那时候就觉得特别有意思。

Of course, especially at the finishing phases of the construction. Take the Long Museum for example, s I went to the construction site 3 times a day, and for the last month I went everyday. Only at the construction site will I have the chance to realize and solve some practical problems. Things went wrong, sometimes it was the workers and sometimes it was my design, which was mostly relating to the scale or misconception, and I would immediately adjust the drawings according to the existing conditions.

The interaction of architecture and people is crucial, and one can truly sense that at the site. And if you were not there at the moment, you will never have a chance to correct it when it is done.

It is delighting to work on site. I have an accurate intuition about architecture so I know whether it would be good or bad when I am there. And I would have to try my best to win the chance and correct what was wrong. When it is the works’ fault and cost to much to redo, I might adjust related structure according to that wrong part. While if it is my mistake, I might as well alter some other structures to transform the wrong into right. That process excites me.

▽ 柳亦春老师在花草亭施工现场,Mr. Liu Yichun at construction site

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6.
您设计家具时是如何思考的?
What would you try to discuss with your recently designed furniture.

我最近做了一根实心钢筋跟木头组织在一起的家具。钢筋弯出椅子的两条后腿和后背,然后木板跟两条前腿是木头的。这个设计里面我想要探讨两个不同特性的材料是如何连接,木头比较温暖也比较传统,一般的凳子用木头是常见的。很多现代家具中钢用的多,但是我想要用钢是希望能够去用到钢的弹性的部分。椅子的后背因为是钢的,所以人坐上去往后靠有弹性,有位移。坐板和两个前腿是木头的,让人感觉比较温暖和亲近。

这件家具就像一个实验,是我对材料和材料如何连接,以及结构如何跟材料的属性去匹配的相关思考的体现。用很建筑的思考方式来做这样一个小的家具。

I made a chair with rebar and wood. I am interested in the possibilities for joints of different materials, in this case, traditional wood material and unconventional rebar material. Though steel is commonly used in furniture industry today, I further utilized the elastic feature of it. The rebar is crooked to form the rear legs and the backrest, and it bends slightly as one lean on it. The seat and the front legs of the chair are made of wood, which is inviting and cozy. It is an experiment testing my theories regarding joints,and to fabricate a small piece of furniture in an architectural way.

▽ 窈窕淑椅,elegant chairs

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7.
你心目当中的理想建筑是怎么样的?
What does your ideal architecture look like?

当它出现在一个特定的场所里,它可以强化那个场所的特质,并感动到接近这个建筑以及生活在那个建筑里面的人,这是我心目中觉得比较理想的建筑。

An ideal architecture should reinforces the characteristic of the very place, and influence those who live in or pass by.

More: Deshaus. 更多关于大舍请移步大舍在gooood以及Deshaus 大舍建筑

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