Under 35 – Dai Pu

Difficulties will never disappear. One should be confident enough and dedicate to the projects.

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gooood团队采访世界各地 35岁以下的年轻创意人,他们有的是创业者,有的是业主,有的是普通职员。我们探访众生百相,记录这个时代年轻人的面貌和真实状态,欢迎您的推荐和建议。
第20期为您奉上的是 戴璞建筑事务所 创始人戴璞。更多关于他,请至:Daipu Architects on gooood

gooood team interviews creative individuals under 35 years old from all over the world, some are pioneering founders, some are clients, some are ordinary practitioners. gooood is trying to record the authentic living and working states of this era. Your recommendations and suggestions are appreciated!
gooood Under 35 NO.20 introduces Dai Pu, founder of Daipu Architects.

 

▼视频(视频为3分钟精华版,全文深度采访见下方文字。建议选择高清1080P观看。)

 

 

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成为建筑师到成立事务所
Becoming an architect to setting up a design studio

 

我觉得困难永远不会过去,只不过是自己的心态变化了,就像每天吃苦瓜,吃着吃着就爱上了……困难过后你会成熟,你会成为你自己”

“Difficulties will never pass, but my mentality has changed; it is just like eating bitter gourd every day, you would then fall in love with eating it..After experiencing the difficulties you will mature and you will become yourself.”

 

我的成长环境没有什么特殊的,一直就是竞争:从中考,高考,上大学,到后来的工作。因为从小到大一直受的都是应试教育,我在高中的时候就想学点不一样的,有更多人文气息的东西,又听说大学里面的建筑学课程会有一些艺术,人文的东西在里面,所以就报了这个专业。当时我对建筑学不是特别了解,学了以后觉得挺对脾气,就一头扎下去了。

从读书到做自己的事,我觉得没有哪天是不困难的。前几天我的一个朋友,康恒,枡野俊明的徒弟,送了我一本书,我让他给题个字,他就题了一句:日日是煎熬。我觉得困难永远不会过去,只不过是自己的心态变化了,就像每天吃苦瓜,吃着吃着就爱上了。困难一直有,但是现在我会更自信一些,觉得过去的那些困难实际上是让我补了一些课。我们从小接受封闭式的应试教育,对中国现实的了解很有限。我从二十多岁创业一路干下来,磕磕绊绊,接受了一些历练,经历了一些挫折,现在回过头去看,觉得都很正常。困难过后你会成熟,你会成为你自己。

There is nothing special about the way I grew up. From high school entrance examination, college entrance examination, to university life, and then working as an architect, each stage  was a fierce competition. As I have always received exam-oriented education from childhood,  I wished to learn something different in high school, something that is more related to humanities. I heard that architecture courses will involve some art and humanities, so I chose it as my major in the university. At that time I knew little about architecture, but soon I felt deeply interested in it.

From my early days in school to now running my own design studio, I do not think any day is any easier than the other. Recently one of my friends, Kang Heng, the apprentice of Takino Junming, gave me a book as a gift. I asked him to write something on the book, he then wrote “every day is a torment”. Difficulties will never pass, but my mentality has changed; just like eating bitter gourd every day, you then fall in love with eating it. Now I am more confident. The  difficulties I went through in the past had  taught me a lot. We received closed-ended exam-oriented education from an early age, and our understanding of China’s reality is limited. Since starting my own design career in my twenties, I obtained some experiences and encountered some setbacks, now I look back and  realized all is within normalcy and banality. After experiencing the difficulties you will mature and you will become yourself.

▼戴璞工作室,office of Daipu Architects ©吴清山

最早我做树美术馆的时候,相当于自己一个人就是一个团队。当时我并没有想成立工作室,我觉得不管是一个人还是一个团队,目标就是要实现我们的想法,把想法变成真实的建筑、真实的作品。公司也好,团队规模也罢,只是实践的副产品。为了实现我的想法我必须得构建团队,一步一步让它完整,让它成熟。我对公司的管理越来越熟练,越来越清晰,慢慢地知道自己需要什么样的团队,什么样的架构。

我的工作时间安排精确到了每一周,甚至每一天。我们每天到公司的第一件事就是明确当天要做的工作任务,和团队的项目建筑师,包括实习生分配好时间节点。我们会非常明确整个项目的进度安排,保证工作按步就班地实现。

短时间内我希望团队内有一种共享的氛围,大家可以分享自己的知识经验、职业经验。工作室定期会有一些活动,请设计师或者各个领域的朋友来做一些讲座或培训。近期我们请了一位在SOM 就职的高级建筑师过来介绍SOM 的工作流程,如他们如何控制完成度等等。

When I worked on Tree Art Museum, I worked only by myself, I was my own team. . I had not set up my studio yet at that time. Whether it be a one person operation or a complete  team, the goal is to realize our ideas and turn our ideas into real works or architecture . The size of the team is only a by-product of the practice. In order to realize my ideas, I have to build a team, and make it complete step by step while it matures. I become  increasingly more proficient and clear in the management of the company, and gradually know what kind of team andstructure works well.

The accuracy of my work schedule is specifically organized  to every week, even every day. The first thing we do each day at the company is to clarify the goals of the day, to assign tasks to the project architects and interns. We are very clear about the progress of the entire project, to ensure that the work will be implemented step by step.

In the short term, I hope that there is a shared atmosphere within the team. Everyone can share their knowledge and experience. The studio holds activities at regularly. We invite designers or friends from  various fields to give lectures or training. Recently we invited a senior architect who worked at SOM to introduce the workflow at SOM, such as how they control the degree of completion, etc.

▼戴璞事务所工作环境,working space of Daipu Architects ©吴清山

 

 

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设计实践带来的感悟
Insights from Design 

 

“身强——只要你足够自信,有强烈的冲动想实现一件事,最后肯定能够实现……哪怕这个东西最后实现不了,你获得的经验和智慧会溶在你的血液里,永远不会消失。”

“Body strength – so long as you have sufficient confidence and a strong urge to accomplish one thing, you will definitely be able to realize..Even if it can’t be realized in the end, the experience and wisdom you gain will dissolve in your blood and never disappear. ”

 

我们没有尝试去找一个普适性的设计概念或设计思路,我们走的是两条平行的实践轨迹。一方面是解决实际的项目问题,让项目落成,让一个项目对投资人、对社会、对公众产生激化活化的作用。工作过程中会发生各种问题,项目建成之后会得到一些反馈,我们会根据这些问题和反馈优化设计和工作流程,这就是另外一条实践的道路,让我们可以快速高效地实现一些类似的项目。

We do not try to find a universal design concept or design idea. Instead, we are taking two parallel practice trajectories. On the one hand, we provide solutions to practical problems to make sure the project will be completed, and the projects play an activation role for investors, the society and the public. In the course of our practice, various problems will occur; we will also obtain some feedback after the project is completed. Based on these questions and feedbacks, we will optimize the design process and workflow. This is another practical path which allows us to implement some similar projects quickly and efficiently.

▼戴璞部分设计项目,part of Dai Pu’s design projects

树美术馆是2012 年建成的,那个时候比较幸运,刚好赶上中国经济浪潮的尾声。当时的投资人是有信心的,所以项目能够落成。大家经常问我有关树美术馆的故事,实际上缺憾的事太多了。对我来说,我觉得最有价值的是这个项目让我认清了一点,就是只要你足够自信,有强烈的冲动想实现一件事,最后肯定能够实现。《周易》里面讲一个人的性格,提到了“身强”这个概念:你的身子骨是不是足够坚强,能够担得起事?如果你足够强的话,有时候天赋也不是那么重要,你依旧可以实现自己的想法。

Tree Art Museum was built in 2012. At that time, the project was lucky to catch up with the end of the Chinese economic tide. The investors at that time were confident so the project can be completed. I was often asked about Tree Art Museum. In fact, there are too many regrets regarding the Tree Art Museum. For me, I think the most valuable thing from this project is that I realize if you have sufficient confidence and a strong urge to accomplish one thing, you will definitely be able to realize it. “Zhou Yi” tells the character of a person and mentions the concept of “body strength”: is your body bone strong enough to be able to bear stress? Can you get things done? If you are strong enough, sometimes talent is not that important; you can still achieve your ideas.

▼树美术馆(点击这里查看更多),Tree Art Museum (click HERE to view more)

身强不是说身体的物理条件,而是性格。我以前在好几家公司工作过:南沙原创、王晖设计、MAD。我觉得在这些工作室里留下来,做出好设计的先决条件是责任心,而且要敢于应对挑战。你经常会分配到一些看似不可能完成的工作任务,但冷静分析下来,你会发现自己必须得完成它,没有人可以代替你,只有这样你才能成长。我说的身强就是这个意思。

关于每个项目我们会投入多少精力,我会说只要我们确定项目最后能实现,我们就会一直工作到让它实现为止。我们在任何项目上都是毫无保留的,我们把每一次设计实践,每一个项目过程都当作一种自我训练。像一个体操演员,每一次训练比赛都是自我提升。哪怕这个东西最后实现不了,你获得的经验和智慧会溶在你的血液里,永远不会消失。

Strength is not the physical condition of the body, but the character. I used to work in several companies: NODE, Wang Hui Design, and MAD. To stay in these studios, the prerequisite for good design is responsibility and courage to cope with challenges. You will often be assigned with tasks that seem impossible to complete. But if you analyze them calmly, you will find that only you can overcome; and only by this way you can grow and fluorish. This is the meaning of “body strength” that I am talking about.

How much energy would we invest in each project? I will say that as long as we are determined that the project can be achieved in the end, we will continue to work to make it happen. We have no reservations on any project. We treat each design practice and each project process as a kind of self-training. Like a gymnast, every training and game is self-improvement. Even if it cannot be realized in the end, the experience and wisdom you gain will dissolve in your blood and never disappear.

 

 

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民主化空间,多元化实践
Democratized space, diversified practice 

 

我们在每一个项目里都试图创造尽可能多的自由、平等、开放的空间,一个好的建筑师必定有这个价值观在支撑。” 

 “We try to create in every project as many free, equal, and open spaces as possible; a good architect must be supported by this value.” 

 

我们并不以形式来定义自己,只能说我们实现的几个项目碰巧都带有曲线这种形式。如果看一下我们那些没实现的或者正在进行的项目,直线折线也很多。我们从没有想过要设几个标签或者一个符号,虽然说这是最快打造设计品牌的一种策略,但是我觉得那会让自己的工作变得过于肤浅。

我有一个剧作家朋友,他说在我的建筑里能明显感觉到民主化的空间倾向。我们在每一个项目里都试图创造尽可能多的自由、平等、开放的空间。这种公共空间有别于我们周末去的咖啡馆,在那里,人们必须消费才能享受空间价值。我们希望在这部分开放空间中大家不需要消费,就可以约会、聚会或者发表自己的意见。不管是中国还是国外,一个好的建筑师最后的诉求或者梦想里面必定有这个价值观在支撑。尽管在设计院以及大量商业公司的实践里面不去谈论它。但建筑师在接受教育的过程中一直会受到这种思想的熏陶,作为独立事务所的相对更自由,在我们的实践里,我们不会忘记人们的这种诉求。

We do not define ourselves in terms of form. Several projects we have implemented happen to have the form of curves. But if you look at our other projects that have not been realized or are in the process of implementation, there are many orthogonal lines. We never subscribe to any labels , although this is the fastest way to build a design brand, I think it  oversimplifies  our process   into something superficial.

I have a playwright friend who said  that he feels a democratized spatial experience in my buildings.  In every project, we try to create as many free, equal, and open spaces as possible. This kind of public space is different from the cafes we ​​visit during weekends, where consumerism comes before the natural right for everyone to enjoy the value of space. We hope that in this type of open spaces, people can have the freedom to date, gather or express opinions without having to spend. . Whether it is in China or abroad, the final appeal or dream of a good architect must be supported by this value. Although it is not discussed in the practice of design institutes and a large number of commercial companies, architects have always been nurtured by this idea in the course of education. As an independent firm, we have relatively more autonomy. In our practice, we will not forget the aspirations of mankind.

▼戴璞部分项目中的民主化空间,democratized space in part of Dai Pu’s projects

反多米诺系列
Anti-domino series

反多米诺这个词有点幽默的意思。从2013 年开始我们一直在做改造,因为城市里面几乎没有什么新建的项目了,但是我们的实践有很大部分是在城市里发生的。我们对已经存在的空间其实是极度不满和失望的,总想搞点破坏,改变它的状态,所以才用了这个词。

不管是私人项目,还是酒吧、美术馆,我们面对的一个很糟糕的问题就是标准化的钢筋混凝土框架。设计院直接按图集画图施工,各类业主发现过去十年间建的东西没法用,就找到我们。你为什么不在项目早期做这个工作?为什么要让它成为既有现实才想到去稍作改善呢?所以我们想用这个系列去总结过去这些年发生的一些故事,它们在设计策略上有一定的相似性。比方说在居住项目中,我们用了国际象棋对角线这种流动语言,它有别于曲线流动;再像重庆的木山——反多米诺02 号,它跟我们的杭州记者站项目是有联系的,都是借用家具和景观系统,在不同层之间,室内外之间做联系和能量交换。

▼反多米诺02号店面外观(点击这里查看更多),shop front of Anti-Domino no.2 (click HERE to view more) ©吴清山

The word anti-domino is a bit humorous. We have been making renovations since 2013, because there are almost no new constructions in the cities. But a lot of our practices take place in the cities. We are extremely dissatisfied and disappointed with the existing spaces, hoping to do some damages and change their status. That is why I use this word.

Whether it is a private project, a bar or an art gallery, one of the problems we face is the standardized reinforced concrete frame. Design institutes directly work according to the  an official guidebook, various owners find  spaces constructed in the  last decade unusable, and come to us for solutions. Why not do this work in the early stages? Why think of making a little improvement after the buildings have become existing reality? The Anti-Domino Series is our attempt to summarize things happened in the past years, as they demonstrate some similarities in terms of design strategies. For example, in a residential project, we used thediagonal relationships inspired from a chessboard , which is different from the fluidity of curves. Another example is Chongqing’s Wood Mountain – anti-Domino 02, which has connection with our Hangzhou reporter station; both used furniture and landscape systems to connect different layers and indoor and outdoor spaces and exchange energy.

▼通过木制家具系统连接不同高度的空间,connect spaces on different levels by wooden furniture system ©吴清山

在我看来建筑也好,景观也罢,还是室内设计,并没有一个明确的专业界限。我倾向于用建筑师的视角来对待每一项工作,只不过有时候我会借用不同领域的专业语言,比如说借用景观领域的一些语言,或者借用工业设计的一些技术。但是最后我们工作的立足点还是在建筑领域,即要对整个人居环境进行一体化设计。建筑落成之后,用户进来,会获得一种完全不同的空间体验,这种体验其实是去专业化的,它整合了各个专业的知识和经验。比方说重庆酒吧项目,我们用五轴CNC来加工整个预制系统,这在建筑领域是极少有的。我们不会把自己限定在钢筋混凝土上。

In my opinion, architecture, landscape or interior design do not have a clear professional boundary. I tend to use the perspective of an architect to view each task, but sometimes I borrow professional language from different spheres, such as borrowing some language from the landscape, or some techniques of industrial design. But in the end, the foothold of our work is still in the field of architecture, that is, integrated design of the entire living environment. Once a building is completed, the users enter and get a completely different spatial experience. This experience is actually de-professionalized, integrating knowledge and experience of various professions. For example, in the Chongqing Bar project, we use a five-axis CNC to process the entire prefabricated system, which is very rare in the field of architecture. We will not limit ourselves to reinforced concrete.

▼通过CNC加工预制系统,prefabricated system processed by CNC cutting ©吴清山

当然我们不会单纯为了构建理论而工作,我觉得理论跟实践是平行的,偶尔交错。应该通过不断实践、不断反馈来丰富我们的理论构架。我们还有一些很有意思的项目是无法归纳到这个系列里来的。

Of course, we are not working solely to build theories. I believe that theory is parallel to practice and occasionally interlaced. We should enrich our theoretical framework through continuous practice and feedback. We also have some very interesting projects that cannot be concluded in this series.

超级北京展览
Super Beijing Exhibition

超级北京展览的主题是乌托邦,但其实我们呈现的是一个反乌托邦的模型。这个展览作品的想法大概是在2008 年、2009 年的时候成型的,那时我还没有真正开始独立实践。当时我认识了一个朋友,他在美国和瑞士学哲学。我们在一个院子里聊天,他告诉我说,再过一个月这个院子就要被拆掉重建,给某部分很重要的人做养老用,而给迁走的居民赔偿很低。那个时候他预言:将来北京会越来越像一个棱锥水晶,排除任何杂质,远远看着非常漂亮,就像梦幻中的城市。你住在通州、燕郊,你可以进入这个城市,比如坐地铁去三里屯喝个咖啡。你好像在享用它,但其实这个城市的运作,真正的空间福祉跟你是没有关系的,你只是一个消费者。我对这次对话印象深刻,并把这个想法用在了这次反乌托邦展览里。展览中涉及到几个方面的模型,我们把军博的CCTV 老楼转化成一个新的模型;把胡同片区做成一个立体式的模型;CBD 则是一个奇迹景观式的形式,所有这些模型构成了一个底部分裂,上部隐秘联系的城市原型。在这个城市里,你会发现所有结构,各个领域,不管是商业、政治、经济还是历史都呈现出金字塔状的超稳定结构。基本上我们都在下面,各个领域之间看上去是离散的,不可能联系、团结起来;只有位于顶端的人之间才有我们几乎看不见的千丝万缕的联系

▼超级北京展览作品,model exhibited in Super Beijing Exhibition

The theme of the Super Beijing exhibition is utopia, but in fact we are presenting an anti-utopia model. The idea of this exhibition was formed in 2008 and 2009, when I had not started independent practice yet. At that time I met a friend who studied philosophy in the United States and Switzerland. We chatted in a courtyard, and he told me that in a month the courtyard would be torn down to make way for  nursing homes built for important persons. The compensation for relocation of residents was very low. At that time he predicted that Beijing will become more and more like a prism crystal in the future, the crystal is completely free of  any impurities, looking very beautiful from a distance, like a dream city. You would live in places like Tongzhou or Yanjiao, and you can enter the city as you wish, such as taking the subway for milesto Sanlitun for coffee. You would seem to enjoy it, but in fact the operation of this city, the well-being of the real space is not related to you; you are just a consumer.  Impressed by the conversation, I used the idea in this anti-utopia exhibition. The exhibition involves several models; we put Junbo’s CCTV old building into a new model, the Hutong area into a three-dimensional model, central business district (CBD) into a miraculous landscape form. All these models constitute a city prototype that is split at the bottom level and secretly connected at the top level. In this city, you will find that all structures and fields, whether commercial, political, economic or historical, exhibit pyramidal, ultra-stable structures. Basically we are all down there, and each sphere seems dispersed, impossible to connect with or united; only those at the top are inextricably linked, which is almost invisible to us.

▼将北京的不同区域转化成新的模型,put different areas of Beijing city into different models

 

 

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当下的实践以及对未来的设想
Current practice and vision for the future

 

“我觉得空间对人类社会来说应该是福祉,我们一直在找比较勇敢的投资人跟我们一起来实现梦想。“ 

“I think space should be a blessing to human society. We have been trying to find courageous investors to realize dreams together with us. ”

 

每个建筑师都有做大尺度项目的梦想,我们也做了一些梦幻似的构想。比如说重庆项目之后,我们叠加了十二层,它的剖面就是一个典型的超高层。超级北京其实不是典型的高层项目,而是一个城市的概念。按照现在的观点来看,90%的高层都是无趣的。

超高层的意义在于如何让人们高密度地聚集在一起,又不会牺牲城市的空间,如绿地,自然的空气、阳光,以及公共领域的可达性等。如今城市绿地紧张,而现在的高层都是非请勿入。我觉得并不是要把超高层都拆了,还原成大片绿地;相反,超高层本身可以成为绿地的一部分,它的某些区域是可以自由进入的。赫尔佐格德梅隆在迈阿密做了一个停车场,其中可以举办各种公共活动,婚礼、体育运动、瑜珈,甚至居住功能等等,我觉得这就是一个很好的概念。在高层里面我们也可以看到有人骑自行车,有人跑步,有人遛狗;宠物店、动物园都可以在这里贯穿起来……

Every architect has a dream of doing large-scale projects, and we have also made some dreamlike conceptions. For example, after the Chongqing project, we superimposed 12 floors and its profile is a typical super high-rise. Super Beijing is not a typical high-level project, but a city concept. In current view, 90% of the high-rise buildings are boring.

The significance of super high-rise is  to allow population density without sacrificing the space of the city, such as green space, natural air, sunlight, as well as accessibility in the public domain. Nowadays, the urban green space is limited, and the high-rise buildings are not open to outsiders. I do not think the super high-rise should all be demolished and restored into large green areas; on the contrary, the super high-rise itself can be part of the green space, and some areas of it should be freely accessed. Herzog & De Meuron designed a parking lot in Miami, which can host various public events, weddings, sports, yoga, even residential functions. I think this is a very good concept. Inside the high-rise buildings, we can also see people riding bicycles, jogging, walking the dog, etc, with pet shops, zoos all integrated inside…

▼高层设想,conception for future high-rise buildings

我们接项目的标准不是建筑类型,而是这个项目的投资人。甲方是不是跟我们一样对这个项目充满期待和想象?如果这个项目有足够的可能性,试图突破已有现状,是最吸引我们的。在我眼里面没有建筑类型,只有空间状态。空间状态跟人的关系是有典型性的,比如说空间对人是封闭的拒绝的,还是开放的欢迎的?它是一种有偿服务还是无偿的免费(自由)的?我觉得空间对人类社会来说应该是福祉。我们一直在找比较勇敢的投资人跟我们一起来实现梦想。

Our standard for accepting projects does not depend on the type of the architecture, but the investor of the particular project. Is the client full of expectations and imagination towards the project just like us? If a project demonstrates sufficient possibilities, the attempt to break through the existing status attracts us the most. In my eyes there is no architecture type, only status of space. There are typical types of relationship between space and people. For example, is the space closed or open to people? Is it a paid service or free of charge? I think space should be a blessing to human society. We have been trying to find courageous investors to realize dreams together with us.

▼浙江办公室改造(点击这里查看更多),renovation of an office in Zhejiang (click HERE to view more)

▼光华之路展览设计(点击这里查看更多),exhibition design for The Road to Brilliance (click HERE to view more) ©吴清山

我们现在做的建筑感很强的项目,其实一开始都只是想找我们做室内设计,我们通过运用策略和手段,让项目最终呈现出了建筑层面的品质。比如说我们在做的酒店室内设计,做完以后是一个全新的、充满建筑感的作品。我们还在做胡同改造,私宅改造,教育文化建筑,美术馆,以及一些工业区改造成文创综合体的项目。我们一直在等待机会,如果实在没人找我们做建筑了,我们可能会自己去乡村找一些机会,做一些小实验小尝试。我们近期还在参与一些国际竞赛,类似于团队的拓展训练,试图积累国际视野下的行业经验,并做一些概念储备。

Most clients approach us for interior renovations, we find ways to  adopt some strategies and methods to make the completed projects display qualities at the architectural level. For example, the hotel  renovation we are working onwill be   architecturally transformative once completed. We are also doing hutong renovations, private house renovations, educational and cultural  spaces, art museums, and projects that transform industrial areas into cultural and creative complexes. We have been waiting for opportunities. If no one is looking for us to do architecture design, we may go to the countryside to find opportunities and do small experiments. Recently we also participated in international competitions, as the team’s expansion training, we are trying to accumulate industry experience in the international perspective and enrich ourconcepts.

▼正在进行的项目 – 遵义美术馆改造,projects in processing – Gallery Delta

▼正在进行的项目 – 贵港酒店,projects in processing – The Volume House

▼正在进行的项目 – 胡同改造,projects in processing – Hutong renovation

▼正在进行的项目 – 摄影师住宅,projects in processing – Hutong renovation

▼工作中的戴璞,Dai Pu during work

More: Daipu Architects,更多关于他们:Daipu Architects on gooood

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