信步辑，闲庭信步看世界。gooood的信步辑拥有许多子分类。这里是“老外设计师在中国”子分类。我们将访问来自全球六位不同的老外建筑师，看看他们是如何看待中国，并展现他们的生活与创作图景。第六期为您带来 B.L.U.E. 创始人青山周平。更多关于他：B.L.U.E. on gooood。

Rumble, to take a glance at the world by wandering. Ramble is an album including many sub-albums, and this sub-album is about foreign architects who work in China. We would introduce you six foreign architects come from Asia, Europe or America with their opinions regarding China, as well as their working and daily life here.This sub-album of Rumble, “foreign designers in China”, includes 6 episodes, and here’s the sixth episode: Shuhei Aoyama (B.L.U.E. on gooood).

▼视频 Video （全文深度采访见下方文字。视频为3分钟精华版，建议选择蓝光1080p观看。）

Interview
gooood × Shuhei Aoyama 青山周平

1.

最关注中国哪些方面？
What aspects of China are you interested in?

所有方面。因为建筑不仅仅是设计，还会涉及到生活，现代的技术、科技、社会的变化等。当然我对艺术文化方面更感兴趣。

All aspects. Architecture is not only about design, but also about life, modern technology, science and social changes, etc. Definitely, I am more interested in art and culture.

▼青山周平部分设计作品，projects designed by Shuhei Aoyama

2.

觉得中国最有趣的地方是什么？
What is the most interesting part of China?

我来北京已经有12年了，对中国的印象一直在变化。2005年我来的时候，主流媒体上都在报道跟奥运会有关的大项目。我当时对中国的现代建筑，城市变化很感兴趣，所以来到了北京做设计的工作。现在大量的建设慢了下来，我更关注的是中国创新可能性的部分。我觉得微信，共享单车，手机支付等新的技术在中国已经超过了很多其他国家。中国出现了很多新的、有意思的想法，有意思的人和有意思的服务，这也是现在中国社会很有意思的变化。我觉得这个地方更适合新的想法，新的空间，新的建筑。

I have been living in Beijing for 12 years, and my impression of China keeps changing. When I firsly came to China in 2005, reports of mega projects for the Beijing Olympics were everywhere on the major media. I was then had so much interests in modern architecture and the changing of cities in China, thus, I decided to come to do design works in Beijing. Nowadays, the speed of vast construction has slowed down, and what I concerned more is the possibility of innovation in China. China has overridden many other countries in new technological fields, such as WeChat, shared bicycle and mobile payment. Plenty of ideas, services and people of interesting brought to the urban construction. Cities in China, as I think, are more fit for creative ideas, new spaces and architectures.

▼B.L.U.E.工作室，一堵砖墙分隔办公和会议空间（点击这里查看更多）B.L.U.E. office where the work place and conference room are separated by a brick wall (click HERE to view more)

▼工作室中富有趣味的摆件，interesting ornaments in the office

3.

觉得中国最大的危机是什么？
What is the biggest risk for China?

变化很快也可以说是一个危机，很多事情在没有确定的时候已经变成一个新的状态。这种状况对建筑的影响可能是在建筑评论，中国在建筑媒体还没有成熟的时候就已经开始通过手机或网络传播。日本经济最发达，政治最活跃的时候正好是自媒体的时代，《新建筑》杂志这样的媒体变成了日本建筑界比较稳定的建筑文化评论平台，大家都在这里发表想法。但是中国已经很快地进入了网络和手机的时代，我不是特别清楚我们熟悉的网站能不能变成很稳定、很有文化，很有批判性的建筑评论平台，而这对建筑以及建筑文化的发展十分重要。我们需要这样的一个平台。

The rapid changing could also be a risk for China, because situations changed may even before they settled. Refer to architecture, the effects may occur in the field of architectural criticism. Architecture reviews have been spread throughout the mobile phones and the Internet without a mature architecture media. When Japan was in its best time in economy and politics, New Architecture grew to be a stable platform for people to discuss and express their ideas about architecture. However, China has already stepped into the age of internet and I am not sure if website could be qualified as a good platform for deep and critical architectural criticism. However, it is necessary and thus we need it.

4.

你认为中国给了你哪些改变？
What changes has China brought to you?

越来越自由。我刚刚在苏州做完了一个很有历史的园子的改造。这个项目如果由苏州或者中国的设计师做的话，可能会有很多文化上面的限制，这有好的地方，但是有的时候也会限制建筑师的想法，让他们不去使用当代的解决方式。而我从外国人的视角去看苏州的园子，会关注更本质的部分。有时候很有价值的创新是从外面来的，因为外国设计师没有那么多限制，所以会创造新的传统，这个可以说是文化上的自由。

I am becoming freer. Recently, I have completed the transformation of a historic garden in Suzhou. For Chinese architects, there might be a lot of cultural restrictions while they are doing the project. There are good places while sometimes might restrict the ideas of architects and make them get rid of the modern way of solutions. As a foreign architect, I might concern the most of the nature of it. Sometimes, the most valuable creations are coming from the outside, since the foreign architects do not have the restrictions, and they could create new traditions, thus we call it the freedom in culture.

▼有熊公寓 – 苏州老宅改造项目，现代与传统结合的水景庭院，You Xiong Project – renovation of a historic house in Suzhou, modern waterscape courtyard combine with the traditional architectural style

▼庭院和室内空间之间的开放关系，open relationship between the courtyard and the interior

▼简洁而富有情调的空间，simple while emotional space

▼公共空间，将现代设计大胆植入传统住宅之中，public space boldly integrating modern design into the historic building

▼与庭院结合的开放浴室，open bathroom combine with the courtyard

5.

中国的环境对你的发展最大的限制是什么？
What is the restriction in the developing China you think have the greatest influences?

我们发展的核心是能不能做好的建筑作品，中国对其限制主要还是在施工方面。好的设计师越来越多，但施工、材料没有像设计师的发展那样那么快，很多问题一直没有特别好的解决方式。目前来讲只能做好整体管理建筑施工部分的工作，跟施工方交流，通过比较传统的方式来解决。

Our main job is to do great architectures and the restriction for us is in construction procedures. The development of the construction and the materials are not progressing as fast as the good architects. Many of the problems have no better solutions. What we can do is to in charge of the whole construction process and keep communicating with the constructors and managing in a traditional way.

6.

请分享一下上海项目最新的情况。
Would you like to share the latest projects in Shanghai with us?

上海外滩南侧西岸技术区里有很多现代画廊和建筑师事务所。我们把那里的一栋老厂房拆了，重新建了一座面积为250平米的日本现代艺术画廊，草间弥生画廊。

There are many modern galleries and architecture studios in the technical area of the west bank of the bund in Shanghai. We demolished one of the old industrial buildings and rebuilt a Japanese gallery of modern art, the Yayoi Kusama gallery.

▼上海大田秀则画廊，外观纯净现代，Ota Fine Arts Gallery in Shanghai with a pure and modern appearance

▼展览，生活，工作与取景窗相结合，将自然引入简洁的室内空间，large windows in the exhibition, living and working rooms bringing nature into the simple interior space

7.

胡同和四合院是非常老北京的生活方式，你为什么生活在这样的环境里？
Hutong and Siheyuan are very typical living of Beijing, why you choose to live in such a space?

东京也有老街区，尽管那里的建筑跟北京胡同的建筑看起来完全不一样，但是里面的生活方式有很多共同的地方。比如在东京，我们可以看到很多东西被摆在外面，街道变成了生活空间的一部分，胡同也是一样的。胡同本身虽然是一个交通空间，但它也变成了生活空间的一部分。这种城市和建筑密切的关系在世界上很多地方都有，虽然看起来不一样，但是里面的生活方式，建筑和城市的关系都有共同的地方。我之所以喜欢这样的地方，是因为住在这样的地方能给发现很多不同的生活视角，带给我很多灵感。

We do have historical parts in Tokyo, though the architectures there look very different from the ones in Beijing, yet they have much in common. In Tokyo, we saw living stuffs are placed outside the buildings, and streets become a part of the daily life, which is similar to that in Hutong. Hutong is a transportation space while at the same time it becomes our living space. This subtle relationship exists everywhere in the world. They may looks different but are similar in the relationship of architecture and the city, as well as the life-style inside. Thus I like the place like this, in which I discover different views of life and gain also inspirations.

8.

能不能简单描述一下你的胡同生活呢？
Would you like to describe your life inside Hutong?

我大部分的时间都在工作室，外面人的生活方式一直给我带来设计上的灵感。比如说我隔壁的人房子很小，基本上没有采光，很暗，所以他从早上到晚上一直在外面的院子里刷牙、吃饭、看书、看手机，打电话。隔壁的阿姨每天早上都会来打扫我的院子，虽然这不是她的院子，但对她来讲心理上是。在住宅区的公寓里面有公共的走廊和电梯厅，我们一般不会看到有人在那打扫，因为我们觉得那跟我没有关系，应该是别人负责的空间。但是在这，我们会看到胡同里私密空间和公共空间之间比较微妙的关系。

I spend most of my time in studio work, and the living styles around keep bring me the inspirations. For example, my neighbor has a tiny space, which without even natural light. He does tooth brushing, having meals, reading, and making calls all in the courtyard. The other neighbor cleans my yard everyday, even though this is not her yard actually. In the residential area, there are public corridors and elevator halls, but we seldom see people cleaning that place. In our mind, those spaces are not our duty. While in Hutong, we saw the subtle relationship of the public and private space.

▼胡同居民把家具搬到道路上，城市空间成为家的延伸，residents in Hutong put furniture on the street that blurs the boundary between city and home

9.

你希望胡同里面有哪些需要改变和进化的地方？
What do you think should be promoted and transformed in Hutong?

很多人喜欢胡同，但是最后还是会选择住在三环外、四环外的住宅。现在的胡同变成了没有条件安家的人的生活空间。我们要把胡同改造成年轻人也可以生活的空间，在这里，年轻人、老年人、有钱的、没有钱的、外国的、当地的，不同背景、不同类型的人都可以找到自己的生活空间，这对我来讲是城市最核心的价值。我希望更多普通的外来人可以在胡同中找到自己的生活空间。

People are saying that they like Hutong but as a result they prefer to live beyond the 3rd or the 4th ring road. We would like to transform the space of Hutong into the spaces that the young would like to live. For me, the value of the city is that people of young, old, rich, and poor, local, strange and of different backgrounds and multi types could find their own way of living a life here. This is the true value to me. And I hope more young and ordinary people could come and find their own life here.

▼南锣鼓巷大杂院改造项目，在胡同中营造适合人生活的空间（点击这里查看更多）Hutong renovation, creating a comfortable space for people to live in (click HERE to view more)

10.

日本很多建筑师喜欢研究家的概念。从建筑师的角度看，你觉得日本家的概念和中国有何不同？就你个人而言，你希望家庭与房子的关系是什么样的？
Many Japanese devoted to the concept of a family, in your point view as an architect, what is the difference between the family concept in China and in Japan? Personally, what kind of relationship you are trying to build?

对于大部分日本人来讲，家是一座独栋的房子。六十年代七十年代时，很多日本年轻人从农村到东京工作，慢慢地他们结婚生子，在郊外有了一栋房子。爸爸每天早上坐火车到城市中心办公，孩子上学，妈妈照顾房子，这是很多日本家庭的原型。放到中国，家就是公寓，是住宅楼的一个房间，这是最大的区别。第二个区别是大部分日本的房子建筑和室内是一起设计的，而中国一般来讲是先有毛胚房，买房子后再自己装修，所以有很大的家装市场，有很多家装设计师，建材市场，家装媒体，家装企业等。

我觉得家和房子应该变成两个不同的概念。我们自己设计建造的住宅太把家和房子做成一致的，这可能跟家庭结构有很大的关系。爸爸妈妈和一两个孩子，这样的家庭生活比较完整，他们的生活空间可以稍微封闭一点。但是现在这种家庭越来越少，比如说在东京，大部分都是单身家庭，有的是年轻人，最多的是老年人。北京、上海这种大城市也是一样，一个人生活，两个人生活的家庭越来越多，房子可能也越来越小。过去我们可以买一百平米的房子，现在我们只买30平米的房子，我们的家可能需要延伸到城市的其他地方，没有办法都放在一个30平米的小空间里，城市越来越变成家的一部分。比如说我们办公室旁边有一个盒子的健身房，可以通过微信预约一个小时。进去后这一个小时的时间里，这个盒子是我自己的健身房，我的家。很多城市的书店、电影院都变成了家延伸的空间，没有办法把家的概念放在那么小的一个房子里面。

To most of the Japanese, home is a single-family house. During the 1960-1970s, most of the young moved from the rural places to Tokyo. They married and had babies and owned their own house. Father goes to work by train everyday, children go to school and mother takes care of the house, this forms the typical Japanese family. While in China, home become apartment, only a part of the residential. The second difference is most of the Japanese architecture are designed both the interior and exterior spaces, while in China, there are many rough houses which you need to decorate yourselves. So there is a huge market of interior design, and interior designers, interior media, etc.

In my point of view, home and house are very different concepts. The house we designed are mostly see these two as one thing. This possibly because of the structure of the family, that is parents and one or two kids. This is a completed structure, and could operated in a closed space. However, this kind of family is decreasing, such like in Tokyo there are many single-person households, and most of the family members are young people or the old. In big cities like Beijing and Shanghai, the single-person family or the couples are increasing, and the apartments are becoming much smaller. We used to buy hundred square meters’ apartment while now we only need 30 square meters’ apartment. And our home might need to extend to other spaces in the city instead of crushing into a 30 square meters’ space. Thus, the city is becoming a part of our life. For example, there is a fitness club inside a box near out studio, where we could make an appointment for an hour on we-chat. The hour I ordered is the private space only for myself. Most of the bookstores and cinemas are becoming extensions of our homes, since we cannot only crush all of our life inside a tiny space.

▼盒子健身房，城市空间变成家的一部分，gym box, city space becomes part of our home

▼南锣鼓巷大杂院改造，私密空间与公共空间界限模糊，Hutong 2, blurred boundary between public and private spaces

▼灯市口胡同住宅，胡同成为家庭空间的延伸（点击这里查看更多）Dengshikou Hutong residence, living space continues by the hutong street (click HERE to view more)

11.

你心中未来城市生活方式是什么样的？
What is your thought of future life-style in the city?

我有时候会把北京和巴黎一起比较，因为北京和巴黎有一些方面比较相似。北京原来二环内有一个被城墙围合的老城区，和巴黎面积大概是一样的，城市结构也一样，核心是一个历史街区，外面是一个现代的生活区域。然后城墙被拆了，变成一个汽车的高速道路，巴黎也一样。不一样的地方是老城区的建筑密度。巴黎老城的传统建筑一般有六层或七层，可以在保留原来的老建筑的同时容纳现代城市的人口密度。但是因为北京的老建筑都是一层，我们想保留老城风貌的话，就只能容纳相当于巴黎七分之一的人口，这跟我们现代城市的人口密度有很大的差距。所以我们在胡同里面逛的时候，经常会发现地下的开发就越来越发达，老房子上面看起来是很传统的一层楼，下面实际上有四五层的地下空间。这是一个比较独特的，自然而然出现的变化。建筑师能不能把这种自然而然出现的变化变成更好的状态呢？这是我比较关注的问题，即地下空间。第二关注的是小空间的利用。北京老城区城市空间虽然很少，但是还是有很多没有被好好利用的废弃的小空间。我们过去几年做过的北京胡同改造当中，有很多小房间因为面积小而没有被利用。通过我们的设计，把这种原来没有被利用的、废弃的城市小空间变成一个可以生活的地方，也是我觉得比较重要的一个方向。

I sometimes comparing Beijing with Paris, and I think they do have something in common. There is an old town surrounded by walls inside the second ring road, which is almost equal to the size of Paris, and the urban structure is also similar with a historical center within a modern living space. When the walls are demolished, the former place is replaced by expressway, just the same as in Paris. The difference is the density of the old town. The old architectures in Paris are mostly six or seven floors’ buildings in which they preserved the old architecture styles and at the same time meet to the needs of contemporary living. However, in Beijing, the historical buildings have only one story, which means that if they keep these buildings, only one-seventh of the population could live inside. There is a big gap. So, while we are walking around Hutong, we recognized the underground development are getting much more advanced. The aboveground looks normal while the underground part reaches to the 4th or 5th floor. However, in Beijing, this is a very natural and unique circumstance. So can architects make these natural changes into better conditions? This is one of my concerns. Another concern of mine is to reuse the tiny spaces. Though there are a few, we still have some tiny spaces that haven’t been taking advantage of. By doing design works, we could transform these undeveloped and abandoned spaces into living spaces.

▼灯市口胡同住宅，巧妙利用狭小空间满足丰富的生活需求（点击这里查看更多）Dengshikou Hutong residence, making full use of the narrow space to meet different living requirements (click HERE to view more)

12.

做设计最困难的是哪个阶段？
What is the hardest part in doing design?

我觉得是做方案的时候。我们希望每个项目都有一个新的思考或新的价值，但是世界上有这么多建筑师在做不同的项目，想要做出新的东西其实很难。每个项目能不能找到我自己满意的、新的想法，是我每次设计中比较困难的地方。

We would like each of our projects would have a new thought or value during the design process. However, there are plenty of architects implementing different kinds of projects, it is very hard to work out with new things. So the hardest part is whether I could work out with something new in each of my projects.

▼Editor 上海兴业太古汇店，采用新的设计想法（点击这里查看更多）Editor Store in Shanghai using creative design idea (click HERE to view more)

13.

应该如何平衡共享环境和私人空间之间的关系？
How do you balance the shared space and the private space?

思考这个界限是我们做设计的一个重点。我们现在在福建泉州做一个全新的共享社区，每个房子都是一个盒子。房子本来是不动的东西，但我们把房间都变成下面带轮子的盒子，把私密的、私有的空间缩小，把公共的、外面的空间做到最大。当然这样做会出现很多问题，比如说一个人想要去叫旁边的人，灯光怎么办？比如说要把盒子移动到那边，但中间有另外一个盒子怎么办？他们的私人物品怎么办？我们实施新想法的时候会出现各种各样的问题，设计就是要解决这些问题。比如我们把电的部分通过充电器来解决，灯光问题我们会在手机上做一个APP，睡觉就按睡觉模式，睡觉的人越多，这个区域的灯光越暗。解决问题才是创新的过程。这样的设计在日本很难出现，因为日本规模比较小，成本比较高，很多日本人觉得失败一次就不行了，但中国不是这样。泉州有六七百万人口，和伦敦差不多，是很大的城市，里面有很多年轻人，如果有一百个人或者两百个人能接受，那这个想法就已经成立了。加上泉州成本没有特别高，所以可以在这样一个人口规模大的二三线城市做比较有创新、试验性的东西。

The boundary of these two kinds of spaces is the crucial point in our design work. We are now implementing a project of shared communities in Quanzhou, Fujian province, of which each of them are boxes. House is immovable object, however, we adding wheels at the bottom of boxes and reducing the private interior spaces and at the same time enlarge the public exterior spaces. This would certainly cause many problems like what if the owner goes to his neighbor and how he would manage the light, what if you want to move the box to a new space while there is another box aside, and what will we do with our private stuff? Challenges turn up while we are implementing our new ideas and what we are doing is to overcome them. For instance, we make the electricity by using the charger, and we would make an APP to control the lights in which when the sleeping mode is mostly using around the boxes, the lighting in this space will get darker. We design while we are solving all the problems. However, this kind of design seldom emerged in Japan. In Japan, we have less space and high living price, and most of the Japanese are not able to accept the failure. While in China, things are different. There are six to seven million people in Quanzhou, which is almost equal to the population in London. The big cities like Quanzhou lives many young people, if one of a hundred could accept this idea, it could work. Plus the living price in Quanzhou is not that high, we could do such innovative and experimental project.

▼泉州共享社区，居住空间在可移动的盒子中，Quanzhou Shared Community, in which the residential space is compacted in movable boxes

▼可移动居住盒子模型，model of the movable living boxes

▼居住盒子自由分布在空间之中，之间形成不同功能的公共空间，living boxes scattered in the space, between which forms different public spaces

14.

用户完全没有按照设计师的想法去使用空间，出现不同行为模式的时候，会给你带来什么不一样的反思呢？
What do you think if the clients do not use the space in the way architects designed? Will it make you to rethink your design?

如果是业主对我们设计的空间做了很大的改动，我觉得没有意见，问题是他们怎么改。如果他们把我们设计的空间改造成比较好的状态，通过他们的想法好好利用我们的空间，发现新的使用方式，使用价值，我们会很高兴，因为这个空间已经变成他的了。比如上次改造的房子，我本来给业主的女儿设计了一个学习的空间，但她并没有在那里学习，而是把它变成了一个自己藏起来的小空间，是她在家里面最喜欢的地方。这种发现对我来讲是很高兴的，

We don’t mind if the clients changed a lot on our design, the question is in which way they changed it? We would be very glad if they transformed the space into a better condition and make better use of it or discover new functions and values, because the place has been part of their life. Such like the transformation we did last time; we designed a new study room for the daughter of the clients. However, she is not using that place as a study room, instead, she made it her favorite private space. And I am quite satisfied with these kinds of transformation.

▼南锣鼓巷大杂院改造第一家，巧妙利用有限空间（点击这里查看更多）Hutong 1, make full use of limited space (click HERE to view more)

▼灵活多变的客厅，可以根据需求转变功能，flexible living space which could be transformed accordingly

▼灵活多变的厨房，扩大料理空间，flexible kitchen with maximum working space

▼南锣鼓巷大杂院改造第二家，加建的厨房兼餐厅满足不同的使用需求，Hutong 2, the additional kitchen and dining space could meet various needs

▼可变的起居空间，flexible living space

15.

现在你创作关注的方向是什么？
What is the focal point in your projects now?

我自己开事务所之后做了几个胡同改造的项目，被媒体关注得比较多，这也是我比较感兴趣的一个方向。我现在也在做白塔寺那边胡同的改造以及苏州老房子的改造。我关注的第二个方面就是新的生活方式部分。我们将要做一个新的公寓，也是希望结合我们对胡同生活方式的研究，做新的生活方式。另外一个关注方向还是建筑。因为我们是建筑师，还是想做出比较好的建筑作品。

I did some transformation projects of Hutong, which are concerned the most by the media and are my interests, after I started my own studio. I also do transformations of Hutong around White Pagoda Temple and the old houses in Suzhou. The other aspect I am into is the new style of living. We are going to design new apartment, in which would connects to the research we did in life-style of Hutong and constitute a new way of living. Still, as an architect, I pay my attention on architecture design and willing to do good architecture projects.

▼改造项目 – 北京国子监失物招领家具店（点击这里查看更多）Renovation project – “Lost and Found” Furniture Store (click HERE to view more)

▼生活方式项目 – 精英英语培训中心（点击这里查看更多）New lifestyle project – Elite English Training School (click HERE to view more)

▼生活方式项目 – 北京好时光空间（点击这里查看更多）New lifestyle project – Good Time Community Centre (click HERE to view more)

▼和同事一起工作中的青山周平，Shuhei Aoyama working with colleague

More: B.L.U.E. , B.L.U.E. on gooood

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