gooood Interview — Shigeru Ban

gooood谷德设计网通过西南交通大学建筑系老师邓敬老师与殷红老师帮助,由他们携带gooood的问题在雅安幼儿园施工现场对坂茂先生进行了一个快速小访谈。做成一个短于以往访谈的特别篇。

Project Specs

刚刚获得普利兹克建筑奖pritzker的日本建筑师坂茂Shigeru Ban于2014年3月31日前往四川雅安芦山县,对中国第一家“纸管”幼儿园-太平镇苗苗幼儿园进行了现场确认。这间幼儿园建成后将是坂茂先生在获得普利兹克建筑奖后的第一件完成作品。gooood谷德设计网通过西南交通大学建筑系老师邓敬老师与殷红老师帮助,由他们携带gooood的问题在雅安幼儿园施工现场对坂茂先生进行了一个快速小访谈,十分感谢这两位无私的老师。

坂茂早在1994年就开始参与灾后重建,2008年的“5.12”地震后,坂茂在成都市为华林小学设计了一所“纸”学校,该学校的主要结构都由低成本并且安全的特殊纸管搭建,在志愿者的帮助下,一个月内便建成。明亮舒适的学校为孩子们提供了一个绝佳的临时学习场所,让许多人过目难忘。来自“5.12”地震重灾区的gooood编辑经过这件事情后对坂茂的印象更加深刻。

▼华林小学临时校舍, 2008年, 中国成都,Hualin Temporary Elementary School, 2008, Chengdu, China   Photo by Li Jun & Voluntary Architects’ Network

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▼纸隔间系统 4, 2011年, 日本 ,Paper Partition System 4, 2011, Japan Photo by Voluntary Architects’ Network

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如同“侠客”一样的坂茂不光频频参与灾区重建,同时他也是一个在建筑上很难界定的才华横溢建筑师。2000年汉诺威世博会的日本馆面积巨大,却没有使用到一根柱子,优美的构筑物在完成使命之后,所有的建设材料“纸”“竹”都被回收再利用,没有浪费一点一滴。这不光体现出日本建筑发展的先进性和丰富性,也印证了坂茂本人那句话:“作为一个建筑师,我设计了美丽的建筑物。但同时,建筑师应该有社会责任。”

▼ 汉诺威世博会日本馆, 2000年, 德国 ,Japan Pavilion, Expo 2000 Hannover, 2000, Germany  Photo by Hiroyuki Hirai

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坂茂在11岁因为手工纸模型建筑获得学校奖赏而开始下决心以后成为建筑师。坂茂大学在东京艺术大学度过,后又在美国西海岸的SCI-Arc和东海岸的The Cooper Union经历了两种截然不同的建筑教育,毕业的他在没有任何工作经验的情况下回东京开设了自己的事务所。现在,他的事务所已经在巴黎和纽约拥有分部,项目涵盖小住宅,博物馆,会议中心,办公楼等宽广的建筑范围。

▼ 赫斯利九桥高尔夫球会所, 2010年, 韩国 ,Haesley Nine Bridges Golf Club House, 2010, Korea Photo by Hiroyuki Hirai

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▼ 纸板教堂, 2013年, 新西兰基督城 ,Cardboard Cathedral, 2013, Christchurch, New Zealand  Photo by Stephen Goodenough

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不受潮流影响,独树一帜的坂茂被普利兹克建筑奖评委会主席帕伦博勋爵评价为:“他对工作对象有着深厚的理解,特别强调对尖端材料和技术的运用;有充分的好奇心和执着;创新永无止境;独到的眼光以及敏锐的感官。他还拥有任何普利兹克奖得主都必不可少却又难以描摹的气质。”

(上文及问题制作:gooood团队。现场采访:西南交通大学老师邓敬与殷红)

 

1

gooood

在坚持探索“纸”这个材料这么多年,“纸”的什么特性最打动你?你觉得它还有哪些新可能性?
We all know that you have special interest in using paper as building material. Which feature of paper that attract you the most? Is there any other probabilities in using paper?

Shigeru Ban

我不太明白为什么人们都在关注纸这个东西。现在每个人都关注纸,纸是木头做的。但是纸可以用作卷筒,很便宜,就像我说的,它很便宜,但是质地坚韧。但不管怎么说,纸就是纸而已。

I don’t understand why people ask me so much about paper, everybody now look at the paper, and paper are made of wood.but the paper are uses the roll paper, it’s cheap, cheap as I say, but it’s strong, but otherwise, the paper is paper.

 

2

gooood

你的灾后避难所,在世界上任何条件艰苦的场所都保证了作品的极高完成度,有什么心得分享给大家?
You have designed many post-disaster refuges around the world, and all these refuges are constructed perfectly. Do you have any experience to share?

Shigeru Ban

我不觉得我做了什么。我只是常去受灾现场,看看那里的灾民需要些什么。比如2008年,我们在灾区建了一所小学。当时我还建了房子,是那种救灾时的临时住房。但是那里的人说他们不需要临时住房了。所以我们找到了当地校长,她请我们盖一所临时学校,我们就盖了那个小学。所以我会去现场实地了解当地人的实际需求。在那个特定的时候,人们需要的就是一所小学。所以,其实我也没有改善灾后环境,只是帮人们找回一些他们失去的东西。有些人设计建筑是为了大众,而我的目的是为小众群体服务,他们遇到的困难政府解决不了,那我愿意帮助他们。所以我可能做不了你想象中的那么多事情,我要去现场找那些遇到某些困难需要得到帮助的特定人群。

I don’t think I have been put into anything, just..I always go to the disaster site, you know the disaster site,  to look for what they need, for example, the 2008, we built the temporary elementary school, also I started building, a temporary house at that time. But also they said we don’t need anymore, temporary houses, that’s why we met the school master, (yeah)she asked us to make a temporary school, so I always go to the site to find out what is locally nessasary, what they need actually. So that’s time to school, that’s time to an elementary school. So I’m not improving the environment, I’m just looking for something missing.some people Take care of majority of people, but my aim is looking for somebody who has, the smaller group of people, who has some particular problems, which cannot be solved by the government. Because I can’t do as much as you think, I have to go there to look for some particular people who have particular problems.

 

3
gooood

你已经在中国有两个作品了,你对中国的环境有哪些感触,有哪些建议?
You have already completed two designs in China, what do you think of the design environment of China? Do you have any suggestion about howto improve the environment?

Shigeru Ban

哈哈哈。。其实我在长城附近建过一幢家具屋,用的材料是竹片。我对竹子这个材料很感兴趣。但我用的不是整个管状的竹子,因为管状不容易成型。所以我把它们做成竹板。家具屋是“长城脚下的公社”建筑群其中之一。

Hahaha…actually I also built a house near the Great Wall by laminated bamboo, I was interested in developing the bamboo, but not tubelar shape, because the tubelar shape is very difficult to use productory. That’s why I made lamination. So it’s a sub building.

 

4

gooood

你是否渴求作品的永恒性?
Do you long for the permanence of building while designing?

Shigeru Ban

我设计的建筑看起来不太符合常规,但它仍可以历久弥坚,这取决于人们的看法。就像1995年,我在神户建的纸屋,那里的人很清楚,只使用10年。后来纸屋迁到另一个受灾城市——台湾,在那里,纸屋变成了当地的教堂,并将永远矗立在那里。所以,如果人们喜欢一个建筑,它就是永恒的。如果开发商盖建筑是为了赚钱,就算是混凝土建起来的高楼大厦,也是暂时的,因为他们只靠那块地赚钱,并不在乎建在那里的是什么建筑。所以,即使是混凝土做成的,它也是暂时的。即使纸做的建筑,只要对人们有用,就能变成永恒的存在。

Oh as I designed, the building couldn’t to look regulation,so it can be permenent.depending on the people. Like one I built in Kobe in 1995, the people supposed to be solely cleared. But because people there decided to use 10 years, then displayed in Taiwan, another disaster city, taiwan, as a permanent church.So if people love the building, it can permanent, if building was made to make money by developer even in concrete, that’s very temporary, other developper by the land instead of the building they put new in. So even in concrete, it’s very temporary. So even in paper, as long as the paper runs, it can be parmenant structure.

 

5
 
gooood

如何看待zaha hadid 事务所的合伙人Patrik Schumacher在Facebook上说:“是不是说那些想得普利茨克奖,或者诺贝尔物理学家奖的人就得在自己的东西里混上点人道主义关怀呢?”
The partner of Zaha Hadid Architects Patrik Schumacher said on his facebook”Does this mean that those who aspire to win the Pritzker – or the nobel prize in physics – have to add humanitarian charity work into the mix?”, what are your comments?

Shigeru Ban

每个人有不同事情要做,我是那种为毕生事业而不断前行的人。人们有不同的目标,不同的法则,有不同的利益,不同的目标。

everybody has a different type of activities, I’m just the kind of people that pursues my life work, they have a different aim, different law. Different interest, different aim.

 

6

gooood

在你的职业生涯中, 有没有什么困难的时期, 你又是如果度过这些困难时期的?
Have you ever experienced a hard time in you career? How did you get through it?

Shigeru Ban

我遇到过困难时期,事实上就在我设计蓬皮杜梅兹中心的时候,我预计是5年完成,结果我们花了7年。到最后一年我们还没拿到钱。 还有就是2008年我们遭受了经济冲击,我是指非常大的财政赤字。那时是在建一个博物馆,那段时间真的比较艰苦。

A6 oh yeah, actually that, when I designed the Pompidou center metz, I hoped that it is only for 5 years, but we spent seven years. For last year we were not paid at all. and also we met the 2008 financial shock, I mean the big financial deficit. It’s a museum project. It’s a difficult moment.

▼蓬皮杜梅斯中心, 2010年, 法国 ,Centre Pompidou-Metz, 2010, France Photo by Didier Boy de la Tour

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gooood

How did you go through it?
你是如何克服那个财政困难的呢?

Shigeru Ban

I do all of the paid.

我自己承担了所有花销。

 

gooood

cut off the budget?
削减预算?

Shigeru Ban

for few years.

是,实施了好几年。

 

7

gooood

你未来的计划?
What you will do in the near future?

Shigeru Ban

我现在正在做详细的项目计划,因为菲律宾去年十月遭受了地震,十一月又遭受了台风影响。所以我被邀请设计一个临时教堂,同时我们在宿务市有一个在建的临时避难所。这就是我目前的工作内容。

I’m doing project DPP now, because they had a earth striking in october, and a big typhoon in november, so I’ve asked to design a temperary church. also we are building now temperary shelter in Cebu right now. that’s the one I’m working on.

MORE: 普利兹克建筑奖pritzker  坂茂Shigeru Ban

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