gooood访谈专辑第十四期 － 张永和

gooood团队采访世界各地的有趣建筑师，艺术家或者设计师，欢迎您的推荐和建议。
第14期为您奉上的是非常建筑张永和。更多关于他：非常建筑在gooood。

gooood team interviews architects, artist and designer from all over the world. Your recommendations and suggestions are welcomed!
gooood Interview NO.14 introduces Atelier FCJZ Yung Ho Chang  . More: Atelier FCJZ on gooood.

出品人：向玲  Producer: Xiang Ling
特邀编辑：众建筑  Guest Editor: People’s Architecture Office . MORE: PAO on gooood
编辑团队：苏昕，朱坤宇，陈诺嘉，刘秘  Editor: Su Xin, Zhu Kunyu, Chen Nuojia, Liu Mi

▽ 视频 Video （全文深度采访见下方文字。视频为3分钟精华版，建议选择高清观看。）

Interview
gooood x Yung Ho Chang

1.
作为中国最早成立的先锋事务所成长到现在，非常建筑发生了哪些重要的转变？
As China’s first pioneering architectural design studio, what significant changes has FCJZ had till now?

1993年春天开始到现在马上24年，我们的兴趣、关注的一些问题，包括建筑、包括中国，并没有很大的改变，但是在这20几年里，积累了很多的经验，还有教训。所以今天我们对中国作为一个社会，作为一个环境的认识，就非常深刻。

我们的思想都是基于中国的条件。建筑学本身的认识，尽管来回是空间、材料、结构，可是认识也要深刻的多。所以我自己的感觉就是好像快成熟了，可能能干出点好点的房子了。

It has been nearly 24 years since Atelier FCJZ was founded in the spring of 1993. Our interests and focuses, including architecture and China, have not changed much. We have accumulated a lot of experience while learning many lessons in these years so that we could have an in-depth understanding of China as a society and an environment.

Our thoughts are based on the conditions in China. When come to architecture itself, we are still talking about space, material and structure, but with a much deeper reading.   So I feel that I am close to maturity and may be able to build something good.

▼ 非常建筑办公室，Office of FCJZ

2.
非常建筑的作品难以找到固定的语言和风格，请问您如何看待形式与风格？
It is hard to find a fixed style in the projects of FCJZ. What do you think about form and style?

很多建筑师把形式和风格作为出发点，那这一点我们是不会的。但是我们当然也很感兴趣形式。形式是建筑很重要的一部分。我们的出发点可能是材料、可能是空间，但也可能是一个概念,尤其是生活方式的概念，它们最终造就了建筑形式。

材料往往是跟结构发生关系，所以这常常构成一个设计起点。比方说我们用玻璃砖做过两个拱结构，就是走的这条思路。那另外一条思路就是空间的，一上来就是确定空间关系。比如院落，我们很多项目都有院落，当然院落和院落也不都一样。还有就是生活方式。生活方式讲的不光是居住，比如还有今天人怎么办公？

Many architects start their design from form and style, which I would never do. Of course we are interested in form as it is an important part of architecture. However, what initiate our design could be material, space, or a concept of how to live, and it finally leads to the form of the architecture.

Material usually has something to do with structure so that it can be the starting point of a design. For instance, we used glass blocks as the structural material for building two arches. Space is another starting point and we would think of spatial relationship at the beginning of a design. Take courtyard as an example. We have done many projects with various kinds of courtyards. Lifestyle could also initiate our design. It is not only about domestic life, but also about how people work nowadays.

▼ 玻璃砖拱结构，Glass Brick Arch

3.
前不久建成的垂直玻璃宅是您21年前的一个概念设计，把一个比较概念和理想主义的设计放在一个现实环境里。请描述你认为概念对于一个建筑的重要程度？
The recently constructed Vertical Glass House was a concept design of yours 21 years ago. It is a relatively conceptual and ideal design in a realistic environment. How important is a concept for a design in your mind?

首先并不是说非得有概念。我觉得有一大类概念，就是那些象征概念，一个楼像什么，比如楼像帆船，跟建筑一点没有关系的。我觉得那些概念毫无意义，我最感兴趣的概念实际上是生活方式的概念。

就是今天人到底除了住这么一套标准的公寓是不是还有其他可能。像我们已经至少有三年在研究自行车住宅。现在有各式各样的自行车，怎么把自行车带到家里？带到了家里，不仅仅是放在那儿，是不是还可以骑？我们设计了一栋集合住宅；还和无印良品合作，另外设计了一个单栋的住宅，也是自行车骑进家的概念。所以说不是一个虚的概念，是一个很实在的概念。

First of all, architectural design doesn’t have to have a concept. I think that there are too many concepts telling what a building resembles, looks like a sailing boat for example, but these concepts have nothing to do with architecture and meaningless. The concept I am interested in is about lifestyle. I wonder if there are other ways for living other than living in an apartment. We have been studying bycicle houses for at least three years now. How could we take bycicles into our home? Could we ride them inside? To experiment with this concept, we have designed an apartment building and also collaborated with MUJI to design a single family house. Thus concept for us is concrete and will really effect the architecture.

▼ 自行车住宅，Bicycle House

垂直玻璃宅就是一种生活方式。现在市场上的商业公寓都是为了一个最标准的生活方式：丈夫、妻子带俩孩子，然后每天上班回来就一定怎么怎么样。所以我当时就想居住者可能是一个思想者，可能是一个诗人，如竹林七贤的刘伶，那是三世纪的人。当然不是说刘伶本人，而是一个人可能有一种状态是像刘伶。刘伶特别有意思，他应该是竹林七贤最穷的一个。我猜刘伶他只有一件袍子出门穿上，回家就脱了，赤身裸体。人家问他为什么在家赤身裸体，他就说天地是他的房子，所以建筑是他的衣服。我想象有一定精神生活的这么一个人，他居在城市里的家是怎么样的？他要保持和天地的关系。因此这个住宅就成为垂直的透明的，就具备了城市性。所以垂直玻璃宅要是没有这个概念就不会想到这儿了。

今天市场经济和媒体是结合作用的，非常非常强大。通常在工作里总是跟市场和媒体合作。但是任何一个社会都有超越市场和媒体的其它的机会，这些其它的机会什么时候来？以什么形式来？我也不知道。但肯定有，所以你为了这些不同的机会， 你必须随时在胡思乱想，否则这样的机会来了，你也会错过。垂直玻璃宅想出来以后，时间过了很长很长以后，盖起来的机会才出现。

Vertical Glass House is about a lifestyle. All the commercial apartments are built for one standard lifestyle which is composed of two working parents with two children. When designing the Vertical Glass House, I imagined it would be the home for a thinker or a poet, like Liu Ling， one of the seven sages of the bamboo grove in the 3rd century. Of course it is not really for Liu Ling, but for someone who is contemporary but shares some similarity with Liu Ling. Liu might be the poorest of the seven sages and was a very interesting person. My guess is that he had only one robe and would take it off when he returned to his house. When people asked why he was nude at home, he answered that the heaven and earth are his house and the building was his clothes. I imagined what kind of building a person with rich spiritual life like Liu Ling would live in the city. He still wants to be connected to Heaven and Earth. Then I came up with the idea of vertically transparent house which responds to the urban conditions. Without this concept, the Vertical Glass House could not exist.

Today, market economy works together with media, creating an extremely strong power. Usually we collaborates with market and media in our work but I believe that there must be other opportunities that are beyond market and media in any society. Although I could not tell when and how would these opportunities may come, I know it is there. In order to grasp such a opportunity, you have to keep thinking openly, or you will miss it when it actually comes. It took a long time for the opportunity to build the Vertical Glass House to appear since I came up with the idea.

▼ 垂直玻璃宅，Vertical Glass House

4.
非常建筑当下关注的建筑范畴或者说未来发展的趋势是什么？
What part of architecture does Atelier FCJZ focus on these days? Could you talk about the trend in the future?

我一直感兴趣一些非常基本的建筑问题：空间、材料结构，生活方式。

中间有些年我觉得要跟上潮流，一会儿就去感兴趣社会问题，一会儿感兴趣环境问题。然后还感兴趣其它一些更是建筑学外围的问题。这些问题不是不重要，可是我现在转了一圈又回来了。现在对我来说如果要关心这些外围问题，也必须从建筑学最核心的点出发。所以我们每一天讨论的问题，以及做的设计都是关于材料、结构、空间。其实这也是我最喜欢的。

一个瑞典人在六几年盖了一个教堂，但他并不是在关心一个宗教建筑，而是一个砖的房子应该怎么盖？他就想那个窗子是什么样的。窗子就是墙上一个洞。洞内洞外有环境差异，那洞怎么封上？他就用一块玻璃，裁得比窗洞大一圈，然后用胶给粘在墙上就完事了。就是这么盖的，他是一个完全自由的建筑师， 他实际上是把常规，不光是技术的常规，甚至是认知的常规都给打破了。

I am always interested in the basic architectural issues, including space, material and structure, lifestyle.

In some years, I feel that I should keep up with the trend so that I shifted my interests between social problems, environmental crisis, and other peripheral issues of architecture. Although these issues are important, I returned to the core of architecture afterwards. In fact, architects could only sovle these big problems from the position of architecture. That is why what we discuss and work on everyday are all about material, structure and space. They are my favourite topics anyway.

A Swedish built a church in the 1960s. What he was concerned with was not the religious nature of the building but how to build a building with brick. In his mind, the window was just a hole on the wall. As the environmental quality differs from outdoor to indoor, the hole should be sealed so that he cut a piece of glass which is larger than the hole and glued it on the wall. He was totally free as an architect who broke all the rules, both in terms of the technology as well as the understanding of architecture.

4-1.
是否理解为您很关注原初，非常原始的原初。像瑞士那种精致细部，您反而觉得没有意思？
Does it mean that you pay attention to the origin of origin? Will you feel boring about the delicate details of architectures in Switzerland?

精细也不是有没有意思。因为我自己就是喜欢盖房子，所以粗的细的都感兴趣。但是我是一个特别矛盾的人，我不会动手，可是我喜欢建筑师很多是泥瓦匠、木匠，什么造过船等等。我不会做，我就选择最简单的方式，所以我的家具设计就是一块胶合木弯出来的。

I wouldn’t say delicate detailing is not interesting. I love to build so I am interested in diverse ways of building, rough or refined. However, I am also a person with contradiction. Many architects I like were at one time masons and chapenters, or ship builders, but my hands are clumsy. Thus I often choose the simplest way to build; for instance, my furniture design is about bending one piece of plywood.

▼ 胶合木家具系列，Plywood furniture

4-2.
您喜欢去现场吗？
Do you like go to construction site?

喜欢。因为我喜欢盖房子，一去工地就高兴，就觉得好玩有意思，回来就还能接着干。我就是想看房子盖起来，这是最终觉得有意思的事。

Yes, I do. Because I really like making buildings and always feel happy on the construction sites. Construction site visits inspire me to go on working on design. I love to see a building go up,which is ultimately the most interesting thing for me.

5.
您的作品类型多样，且跨界广泛。能聊聊多样化的成因和您实践后的体会与收获吗？
You have done various projects in different fields. What caused this variety and what have you gained from it?

我喜欢文艺，特别是美术、设计，所以年轻的时候算是一个文艺青年。美术、设计，包括文学，戏剧，电影等有关的事情，如果有机会的话，我都愿意试着做。是一个很单纯的事情。

现在分工越来越细，连室内还从建筑里面剥离出去了，算是另外一个行当。这种细的分工我认为其实是违反人性的。社会习俗的压力就觉得一个人必须干一个事。我觉得不见得是这样的，人不是非得只能干一个事。

I was very much into arts, especially fine arts and design, when I was young. Anything that is related to literature, drama, movie, I would also like to try if there is a chance. It’s just as simple as that.

It has been more and more elaborate in labor division that even interior design was separated from architecture as an independent profession. I think this division of labor in fact is against human nature. Under the pressure of social convention, many people feel that they must focus on one job, which I do not agree with. It is not necessary that one could only do one thing.

▼ 跨界作品：戏剧《竹林七贤》舞美设计，Crossover design: Stage design of Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove

5-1.
我觉得非常建筑有点是像是中国的OMA了，在这里工作过的人，出来工作在年轻一辈里也都算是比较有声响的。来这里工作的人其实是一个双方的选择，你的工作方式和你的想法会影响他们，然后他们出去之后也会无形的展现出来那种思想的特质。
Atelier FCJZ is some how like OMA in China that people who have worked here would be relatively eminent among the young architects.Your studio chooses people and your way of working and thinking will effect them. When they leave, they will unconsciously think in the way that was acquired from FCJZ.

我有一种警惕性，我不会在脑子里不转念就接受一个事。换句话说我不会跟大流。可是我也跟过，就是刚才讲关于社会问题、环境问题，可持续发展、技术、数码，我都被拉过去过，但最终我都回到建筑本身。我本科的时候在美国，一个老师是南非人，有一天一起聊天，他说某某建筑师不坚定，看到一个新的事物，兴趣就会转过去。我听他讲我一下子就意识到我自己也是这样。那时候我26岁，老被别人做的工作吸引。他跟我说你不会，你会回来的。现在我知道我的确是，我会被吸引，很被吸引，但是我还会回来的。

I always try to stay alert and would not accept something without thinking over it. In other words, I would not follow the trend. As I have said before,I have followed the trends of social concerns, pollutions, sustainability, technology, digital design, but I returned to the core architectural issues in the end. When I was an undergraduate student in the US, I had a teacher from South Africa. One day he mentioned that an architect could not stand firm that he would be easily distracted by new things. Hearing this, I suddenly realized that it was the same to me. I was 26 then and was always drawn by the work of others. However, my teacher told me that I was different and I would eventually come back. Now I know he was right. Although I could be very much attracted by different things, I will always return to where I started.

6.
您曾说过整个世界到60年代以后就没有什么有意思的事儿了，您所偏好的东西也都基本是60年代以前的，请问产生这样复古情怀的原因是什么，您自己如何看待？
You have said that there’s nothing interesting in the world after 1960s and the things you prefer are all before that age. What causes you to like the ancient things and what do you think of it?

我的经历使我发现我真心喜欢的东西全都是那个时代往前的，包括电影、服装、设计。所以慢慢地我也会自己分析，发现我跟今天社会的整体气氛特别不合。因为现在都是要张扬，要好像一天到晚打了激素兴奋，而我是一个很安静的人，按照现在的话就是宅男。当然我有自己的趣味。像我喜欢绘本，其中有一个比利时漫画家冯索瓦·史奇顿，体现在他绘本书里的那个世界就特别有意思。他想象中的世界都是新艺术风的建筑，故事里的人穿的衣服却是文艺复兴时代的，然后交通工具是各种各样的未来的飞艇。其实我的世界也是乱搭的。设计在美国，在欧洲，也差不多60年代末以后都是下坡路。我读到一个研究是美国普林斯顿两三个教授合作的， 他们提到说整个人类文明在60年代末之后都在走下坡路。他们用的案例是英国，包括语言变得粗了等等，方方面面。这里谈的是文明不是文化。意大利的情况也差不多、中国的情况好像也差不多。

Through my experience, I realized that what I really like are things before the era of 1960s, including movies, clothes and design. So I have had some self-reflection and found out that I do not fit into the aura of the contemporary society very well. Today is an age of self display and people tend to be high at all time. But I myself am a quiet person as so-called otaku who is on the contrary of this prevailing trend. Of course I have my own taste. I enjoy graphic novels a lot and one of my favourite authors is Francois Schuiten. In his books, he imaged a world where the architecture is in Art Nouveau style and people wear clothes of the time of Renaissance. In spite of its return-to-ancient atmosphere, people use various futuristic airships for transportation. In fact, my world is also a collage. Design started to go downhill since 1960s in both America and Europe. I have read a research made by 2 or 3 professors at Princeton, which shows that the human civilization has been declining since the end of 1960s. They took England as case study, where the decline could be found in vulgar language and many other aspects. Here we are talking about civilization not culture, and the situation is similar in Italy and China.

▼ 张永和老师办公室场景与收藏品，The office of Yung Ho Chang and his collections

7.
前段时间提出的“开放街区制”在市民中引起了热议。如果要推行欧洲城市般的“微型城市”格局，您认为在中国应该如何层层推进呢？此外，中国社会似乎已进入了外卖和快递时代，足不出户也能正常生活，您认为这会给城市空间结构的发展带来哪些变化？
Recently，“open community” has prompted heated discussion among citizens. How could we gradually practice the “micro city” of Europe in China? It seems that China has come to a time of express delivery and take-out that people could live a normal life without going out. What changes will this situation bring to the city structure?

第一个问题就是怎么去实施？我相信不是太容易的，但是我是100%的支持开放，而且我也100%支持小街区。现在的人形成了一个习惯，就是跟城市接触不是很多。我最想住一个地方能走到戏院能去听京剧或者是看话剧。要不然我在城里住干吗？城市其实给人类居民提供了大量的特别有意思的东西；但是因为咱们的城市的不便，你都没法去参与，把城市最有意思的那些事都错过了。这也实际上是一个混合使用的问题。当商、工作、住、还有文化都混在一起，下楼就上班了，过马路看见那边打折又买了东西，跟朋友聚会很方便，大家都是走几步就可以一起吃了中饭。你可以想象，这个时候你的文化生活，还有社交生活都会丰富多彩。

东京那么大都能走，完全能走。巴黎大家都知道，也都能走。为什么能走？实际上它就是小街区，你老能拐弯。当一条特别长的路是为车的，你在边上尽管有点绿化，也走起来很无聊，就不会走。北京多不容易走，现在太不方便了。

作为建筑师，我没有什么权利。我希望整个体制、整个社会能比较尊重专业人员的意见。有的建筑师有能力从政，那他最好去从政，可能从政比设计房子对社会的贡献要大的多。像以前罗马有一个市长就是建筑师，他特别会用公共空间做各式各样的文化活动。别的市长都没有他有想象力。

关于互联网，因为首先我自己不太用，网上买东西也不太会。我对未来城市生活是这么想象的：现在很多人是懒的，不愿意做饭，有时候不愿意出去，于是叫外卖，这个完全能理解。但是一个人在一生中也并不是从头懒到尾。所以我老想一个情景，就是如果一家人楼下有很多很好的餐馆，他是不是一定要买快餐？他下了楼就有很多选择吃饭了。因为我自己就是这样的，如果我们家楼下餐馆选择多点，可能就不在家吃了。实际上城市生活的质量肯定会吸引很多人愿意住到城里去，比如更多的选择，更方便的到达意味着更好的公共交通等等。

The most pressing question is how to make the notion work, which will not be easy. I am a hundred percent behind the open idea and totally agree with small block. Today people are used to live in a city that they have little contact with. But for me, I would prefer to live in a place in the city where I could walk to a theater to enjoy Peking opera or modern drama. City could have provided its inhabitants so many interesting things, which people might not be able to enjoy due to the inconvenience caused by the insensible spatial organization of the city. It is also an issue of mixed use. If shopping, working, housing and culture facilities are mixed together, the city would be more convenient. People could walk to work and they could buy something on sale by just crossing the street. Meeting with friends also becomes easier as restaurants are within walking distance. You could enjoy diverse cultural and social life in such a city.

Even in large cities like Tokyo, one could still walk everywhere. It is the small block that makes walking enjoyable in these cities. You could always take to a different route though the city. When a road for vehicles is long, it would be so boring for pedestrians even if there is some landscape. Beijing is an inconvenient city which makes walking extremely difficult.

I don’t have much power as an architect. I hope that the whole social system would value the opinion of professional people more. Some architects have talents in politics and it is better for them to become politicians. They might make more contribution to the society than designing buildings. One of the former mayers of Rome was an architect and he was very good at using public spaces for various culture events, which was beyond other mayers’ imagination.

As far as the Internet, I have to say that I don’t use it that much, let alone on-line shopping. I could understand that some people sometimes feel lazy that they don’t want to cook or go out; however, one could not be lazy all the time. If there are plenty of good restaurants downstairs and people could walk down to get something to eat easily, is it still necessary for them to order delivered food? If I have more choices downstairs, I may not eat at home. People are drawn into the city by its life quality, which means more choices and more convenient to go somewhere with better public transportation, etc.

8.
您在北大与MIT都提倡强调基本内容与实践的建筑教育，目前的参数化设计教育是否再次脱离了建筑基本与实践呢？您现在依然在学校任教，如何看待目前中国／全球建筑教育的问题呢？
In both Beijing University and MIT you propose the architectural education that stresses basic knowledge and practice. Do you think that parametric design is again separated from architectural basis? You are still teaching and could you talk about the problems in China and global architectural education?

计算机是一个工具。计算机可以用来处理大量的信息，所以像整个城市的规划、设计需要用计算机来处理。但是把计算机和一个特定的形式语言锁在一起毫无道理，无论是比较复杂的形体也好、简单的形体也好。计算机跟建筑的核心、基本问题不矛盾。

有创造性的设计才好，可是现在就有一批人说只有设计某种风格的建筑才是对的。他们为什么对？今天时代的本质是丰富多彩，是多元的，怎么会只有一个对的？

（建筑教育）问题比较大的就咱们中国和美国。在中国主要是学了画、表现图，根本不知道房子怎么盖的。然后在美国，学生是琅琅上口地讲很艰深的理论，可是回到盖房子，很多基本知识都缺乏。

像麻省理工，硕士研究生念三年半，首先有一个教程。然后还有一个东西叫教学法。就是说你每学一个东西是怎么学的？老师是怎么教你的？是通过什么样的练习你学会的？它是一个很完整的系统，然后出来了一个学生，刚刚能够毕业的，我们知道这个学生他学过什么、他能干什么、他理解了什么。实际上是这么一个东西才叫教育。

Computer is a tool with the help of which you could deal with large amount of data. Thus we use computers to deal with complicated design such as urban planning. But it makes no sense to combine computer design with a particular style，no matter complex or simple in form. There is no contradiction between computer and core issues of architecture.

Design has to be creative. The problem is that a bunch of people regard certain style of architecture as the only correct one. Why they are correct? In an age of diversity and pluralism, how could there be one correct thing?

China and America both have relatively big problems in architecture education. In China, students learn to draw a building without knowing how to realize it. And in America, students would know many abstruse theories while being lack of basic knowledge of construction.

At MIT, it takes a student three and a half years to finish his graduate study. There is a curriculum as well as a thing called pedagogy that determines how to learn and teach and what kind of practice should be carried out. It is a complete system, through which we could know exactly what a student has learned, what he could do and what he understands. This is education.

▼ 张永和老师在办公室指导工作，Yung Ho Chang guiding work

9.
在利润驱动的世界，如何有效保护设计价值？
In a world driven by profit, how could architects protect the value of design.

这个问题挺逗的，其实建筑师、设计师恰恰没有机会保护设计的价值，因为建筑设计今天在中国根本没有真正地进入，比方说房地产这个操作体系。有时候建筑师们惊讶的嘴都合不上了，因为设计非常烂可是也可能卖得很贵。也有的设计不错的房子卖不上去。

但是我不认为建筑师因此就得低估自己工作的价值，因为最终有一个老百姓误打误撞住上你设计的房子，他迟早会发现这房子设计有道理。我碰上过几次这种情况了。

今天一个公司的人到大楼里去上班，早上9点进去，中午要一个盒饭，到晚上5点出来，好像是一个理所当然的事情。后来这个公司拿到一块地，想盖一个高楼，可是很大的一块地，那我们提议就是你为什么不盖低层的，不超过三层，做好多花园、院子。工作人员可以出来散步，还可以出来做做操，抽烟也可以到室外去抽。我们的业主方理解也同意了。可是我也并不知道这些人会出来不出来，我做建筑师只是发给他们一个出来的邀请。盖好后我去了很多次，从夏天一直到冬天，发现院子里到中午全是人。有一天下雪我也去了，看到人们也出来。天气好人们可以一个小时都在外面，天气差就少呆一会儿。有走路的，做操的，还有坐在草地上吃野餐的。我们的这个邀请让使用者接受了。这也会变成这个公司文化的一部分。大家都爱出去在户外活动，那这个公司的人比别的公司会不会普遍健康一点？

所以我们必须相信设计，这就是设计的价值。当然也不是说市场对与不对，很多事情都是双刃剑。如果一个东西就是设计好了才卖钱多，太理想了。

This is a funny question. In fact, architects and designers do not have a way to protect the value of design because architectural design has not really entered the operational system of real estate in China from the beginning. Sometimes architects would be astonished by the fact that bad designs could be very expensive while good ones might be cheap.

However, it does not mean that architects should undervalue their work. There must be one day that someone moves into the house you designed and he would find the design makes sense sooner or later. I have experienced this situation more than once.

It is for granted now for people to come to the office at 9 in the morning, eat boxed luch and leave on 5 in the afternoon. Once a client got a site and wanted to build a highrise office building on it. As the site was very large, we suggested them to build lowrise buildings with no more than three levels and put some gaderns and courtyards in between. Workers could walk and smoke outside as well as doing some exercise. Our client understood and accepted this idea; however, we were not sure whether people would come out or not and our design was only an invitation to the new lifestyle. I went to this office complex many times after its completion from summer to winter and found that the courtyard was crowded with people at noon, even when it was snowing. People could stay outside for more than an hour when the weather was ideal and not as long when the weather was less agreeable, walking, exercising,or even having a picnic on the lawn. Our invitation was accepted by the users and it could become part of the company’s culture. As the employees would all want to go out and exercise, they would live healthier than those of other companies.

This is the value of design and it is the only thing we could believe. We could not simply judge the market to be right or wrong as everything has two faces. It is too ideal if something is expensive only because of its good design.

▼ 北京用友研发中心，UFIDA Beijing

10.
您曾经提到中国目前引进的只是“明星设计师的大商标” ，普通百姓并未享受到建筑设计。您觉得如何能让普通百姓也享受到好的设计？您怎么看待建筑师的社会责任感？有哪些地方是您认为急需改变的或是力所能及去改变的？
You have mentioned that China only imports “the label of star designers” and people could not enjoy the design. How could common people enjoy good design as well? What do you think of the social responsibility of architects? What aspects need to be changed or could be changed in your mind?

设计跟建筑这两个行当还不太一样，设计主要是产品设计、服装设计什么的。建筑直接服务到比较大的人群是通过公共建筑。建筑跟社会的真正的接触面特小，所以带来一个奇怪的现象就是中国老百姓加上媒体乐此不疲地说这个房子像什么。他要真正使用过，他可能就没那么关心房子像什么。我喜欢音乐就常去大剧院，去多了，一般都是从车库进去，也就不太关心它的样子是什么，关心更是大剧院的节目内容。如果有机会让老百姓多了解一点建筑就好了。让老百姓能更多使用公共建筑，那会很不同。

产品设计因为它相对便宜，买一个设计很好的东西，像iPhone，很多人还都是买得起。真的要请一个建筑师设计一个房子、住宅，那是另外一个故事。所以建筑是最难的。

中国现在还好，有一个新生儿的猛劲，可是我觉得从建筑学来讲，最大问题在城市不在建筑。现在有很多看着不错的房子，到里头也是很好的空间，可是整个城市的状况非常糟糕。中国现在有很好的服装设计师，很好的平面设计师，可是产品设计还很落后，家具也落后。这是讲这些设计领域的情况，老百姓能受益多少就不一定。大城市里有文艺青年人群，他们除了住不进好房子之外，其实可以享受到不少的设计。亚洲的城市文化以及人和设计的关系已经比美国好太多了。

Design and architecture are not the same. When we talk about design, it mainly refers to product design and clothing design. But architecture could only serve the mass through public buildings. As the number of buildings that have direct contact with the society is limited, it brings up a strange phenomenon that common people and media in China have great enthusiasm in making up nicknames for buildings. If they have really used the building, they might be less interested in what it looks like. I always go to the National Grand Theater as I like music and I would not care about its appearance because I would enter it from the garage. What attract me are the programs of performances. It would be great if common people could learn more about architecture. If they could have more chances to use the public buildings, their view would change significantly.

Product design is relatively inexpensive and many people could afford something in good design like an iphone. But commissioning an architect to build a house is another story. Thus architecture is the most difficult.

China has its advantage that it is roust and growing like a newborn. However, I think the biggest design challenge is city not architecture. There are more and more buildings that look good with great interior spaces but the city as a whole could be terrible. China now also has good clothing designers and graphic designers though it is not the case in product and furniture design. I’m talking about the design disciplines. How much common people could benefit from design is another story. Young people in big cities may not able to own apartments but they still could enjoy designs from other fields. Compared with America, Asian cities are rich in urban culture and the relationship between people and design is much closer.

11.
您认为自己所面临的最大的挑战是？
what is the biggest challenge do you think you are facing?

我觉得建筑难，而且我又学得太慢，可是我在努力地学，特别是建筑技术，包括结构、设备（就是刚才讲到的水、暖、通风、空调），建筑的细部和节点，材料的使用，这些我都掌握得不够。可是我相信只要我慢慢地学还是会学到一些的，然后把房子盖的更好。那样建筑师就没白干。

I think architecture is very difficult and I am a slow learner. But I still keep on learning hard especially in architectural technology such as structure, equipment (ventilation, heating, airconditioning), joints and details, materials, etc. Although my knowledge in these aspects is insufficient, I believe that as long as I keep on learning, I would gain some skills to create better buildings, which will be rewarding for an architect.

▼ 张永和老师独自办公室工作，Yung Ho Chang working

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